Lucid Dreaming is FAKE

Yeah, some of the content might not be true. I’m also quite skeptical about doing astral projection/shared dreams. But really, there’s no harm in attempting it out in a lucid dream. Even if it isn’t true, at least it’s harmless fun.

But really, there’s something odd about not believing in lucid dreams and still believing in Christianity. But then again, I tend to question atheism, too.

Bruno has made an excellent reply here which I have nothing really more to add to :grin:

Hey, people stop commenting w/out reading the rest of the comments because i’m done. I never looked at the people for LD’ing but only the people against it.

I look at it like this. If lucid dreaming is just a normal dream, what does it matter your still getting the same effect even though its only an illlusion of being lucid. Its something diffrent happning compared to not practing lucid dreams. If thats what your talking about. If you mean that lucid dreaming isnt real in the other way, and that everyone here is conspiring with lies that we lucid dream. Well that would just be stupid. Or maybie Im just not understanding what you mean.

I dont know why, and Im sorry, but your post has mad me angry. Do you seriously think were all lying about lucid dreams. Damn skeptics are going to be the down fall of our evolution if we arnt carefull. No need to spread it to people who are seriously trying to have a lucid dream. Lucid dreaming is real, so dont listen to “luciddreaming is fake” Even your name is skeptikal. If your frustrated, because you havnt had one youll never have one if you dont open your mind.

Kava, did you even read his post? You were very rude to him, and you’re accusing him of saying something which is completely besides the point of what he actually said.

Your right Bruno, I apologize for being so rude. I just dont really understand what you are saying? Could someone explain to me what he is saying. I think its just his name that angred. Sorry for my ignorance. Are you saying that its more spiritual then scientific? I dont know why its so hard for me to grasp what your saying.

So first you say you have a LD, then you say “NOT” then you are explaining that you did have a lucid dream, and that you lied when you said you had had lucid dreams before. Im really confused here.

He lied about having LDs and now , for the first time, he had a LD but he wasn’t able to control the environment so he deemed the LDing experience as Fake.

Well, first of all, you did have a lucid dream, so the discussion here is not about whether or not it is possible to have a lucid dream, but whether or not it is possible to manipulate the environment in the dream ? Correct me if im wrong…

You don’t need science…

The only proof you can get is your own .

The only way to get it would be to Lucid Dream, so if you’re still up for it…

We have something to talk about…

:content: You are only limited by your own beliefs! :wink:
You say you are Christian and I was raised Catholic. I went to sunday school and mass every weekend from 1st through 10th grade. I am now 32 and have had many life experiences that did not correlate with what I was taught and raised to believe. So I have learned to open my mind and enjoy the freedom of not limiting my thoughts and to continue to experience life and learn through life experience instead of what was preached to me as someone else’s ideals and way life is and should be. I’m not saying that anyone’s religious preference is wrong I’m just saying don’t forget to listen to yourself as well.

Why in fucks name would you look for that here?

ya know this is a quality discussion, but the GLARING TITLE seems to be casting a doubt cloud over the ability

someone needs to make a title “lucid dreaming is REAL” to balance things out

To be fair, if he had started the topic in a different tone, he would have had a lot of insightful replies as to the many senses in which Lucid Dreaming is fake — psychiatrical, neurological, philosophical.

please elaborate? :grin:

i buckled down and did a WILD this mornin,

the only thing not real about dreams is they seem to exist in the personal individual history relative to this life, which means that new sensory experiences and/or paranormal and/or shared dreaming are tricky, as i would not consider it astral if you cannot learn new things.

I think people who can’t LD tend to think of LD like magic eye pictures. Everyone, including me, is really annoyed that they can’t do them and I believe that everyone who claims they can see them are in one giant conspiracy to annoy me specifically.

does this thread ripple out into infinity and share scientific and objective knowledge to anyone who holds this thoughtform, “lucid dremaing is fake” so that they are no longer contrariwise ?

Sketch argument: why is waking life not like a dream? How differently does our reason function during a dream as opposed to waking hours? Is it possible to say there’s more suspension of disbelief, or less lucidity, to dreams than to real life? If there are no clear boundaries between dreams and reality, or between lucidity in and outside of a dream, then the expression “lucid dreaming” yields a mostly irrelevant distinction.

Full version: suspension of disbelief is everywhere, not just in dreams. Consciousness is only momentary at any point in life. (Think about: how we give up lucidity in order to enjoy a movie or a book). (Think also about: how we fail to question the most bizarre situations in real life just as well as in dreams, as shown by those “Candid Camera” TV programmes).

As thinking beings, we follow “mind scripts” which direct our perception (there’s nothing inherently “red” about red: in fact eskimos tend to think of red and pink and orange as the exact same colour), our habits (the thereshold for hunger, cold and many other things, more than just phisiological, is cultural: I rembember at one point in Amsterdam a situation where I felt it was too cold whereas Siw couldn’t stand the heat), even our social behaviour (“justice” only works because and so far as people follow the script: the universe itself is absolutely indifferent to the concept, it’s meaningless without humans to reinact it).

In real life as well as in dreams we can realise we’re following unnecessary scripts (let’s call this “momentary lucidity”): we can realise there’s nothing “red” about red, experience the sensation of flying, convince ourselves that our neighbour is a T-Rex in desguise even though we have no neighbour to begin with. The only differences between a lucid dream and waking lucidity would be, first, that lucid dreaming is relatively self-contained (so long as you’re neither a sleepwalker, nor psychotic)…

…and that you can violate the laws of physics with much more ease than you would be able to in real life, where you have to go through the tedious task of convincing yourself you’re floating and then proceed to experience the full blown delirium (I don’t think even a hardcore buddhist monk could willingly do that completely sober, but it’s theoretically possible, and it happens all the time to psychiatrically abnormal people).

In fact, psychiatrically “normal” people can ever so often, involuntarily, experience the lack of musical recognition, the lack of some sense of bodily boundaries (I, for one, lose proprioception during my strongest migraines), certainty that their death is imminent. Normal people can be taught or convince themselves of following the weirdest mind scripts: nationality, the experience of miracles, hatred, belief in utopias, or that there’s anything simple and well-defined about the word “capitalism”.

In that sense, yes, he’s right. There’s no such a thing as lucid dreaming, there’s barely any lucidity to begin with. Lucid people would be able to stop through a panic attack and realise they were panicking. Or look at a president and think “they’re just a person, wearing formal clothes, saying abstract words” and there would be no perception of power whatsoever about them. A moment of lucidity is when we realise we’re only a bunch of hairless monkeys playing a game of Society. This realisation can be much more precious (and is much rarer for that matter) than the realisation that you’re trapped inside your own mind and potentially capable of flying.

~ * ~

post note: to those who don’t know me (I suppose Q does by now, so I figured the post above would suffice, no need for disclaimers), I don’t take sides, and I don’t take ideas too seriously. I think the ideas above are valid and potentially true. I don’t necessarily live my life by them. I don’t see a point, not believing in Lucid Dreams, when I don’t live my waking life lucidly enough for the arguments above to matter. So, just playing devil’s advocate. Now, if you feel like realising life is a big fat lie and the world is full of possibilities, though, I’d recommend buddhism and the lucid living topic.

whew quite the read… bit tired for this now, going to read this again tomorrow.

(so now Buddhism =/= realizing life is a big fat lie? :razz:)

If it was fake there wouldnt be a science for it, a forum for it, or thousands of people that HAVE LD’s/

I have had several LDs. They’re not fake.

Unless you’re kidding, I can’t understand how you could possibly justify this, considering the forum you are on, which you have apparently used for a while.