Make My Own Lucid CD

Ed_Case · February 1, 2003, 3:17pm

I have an idea for an experiment that I’m going to do on myself with sound and sleep. Firstly I’m going to say this: some of you may say this is a good idea, some of you may say it’s a stupid idea, but either way I don’t care, I’m gonna do it anyway.

I enjoy playing around with my own music on the computer just for fun. Now, I’ve had this idea to create big long piece of music to help induce LDs.

This idea came to me after reading stuff on here about the idea of listening to music while asleep, and also the idea that the Nova Dreamer can produce sound that is included in the dream as some kind of sign.

Now, my idea is this: to make some really relaxing music that just drifts along slowly. It would be like one big long track like an hour long or something, and just be nice drifting sounds. Then here comes the good part: I want to then include subtle voices in it saying things like “Are you dreaming?” or “Is this a dream?”

Obviously, it will take some experimenting to get it just right with regards to several aspects of it, what with getting the music just right, have the voices saying the right things, and also having the voices at just the right volume so as to not be so loud to wake me up but to be loud enough to maybe appear in the dream in the form of a dream character asking the questions.

I was thinking, to begin with anyway, to start by just using computer generated voices, not the ones that sound like robots, but the ones that are supposed to sound like people but don’t quite sound right. I’m thinking that the fact that they sound a little stupid won’t matter if the volume of them isn’t so loud that it wakes me up. As long as I remain asleep but the voices appear in the dream, then that’s all that will matter.

Anyway, I just thought I’d let you all know, in case anyone is interested in this. I’ll keep the group updated on my progress and what happens. Seeing as I like playing around with sounds anyway, this will be as much about the fun of making it as it will be about the goal of achieving a lucid dream.

Also, once it’s done, if it’s successfull, anyone is welcome to have a copy if they supply a CD and pay for the postage. Or alternatively, if I’ve inspired any other musical people to do the same thing and then compare notes, then that’s fun too.

Or if anyone reads this and isn’t interested and/or thinks it’s a stupid idea, then that’s fine too, because I’m gonna do it anyway!

Ed

tapir · February 1, 2003, 3:31pm

Nice idea
I am already curious

Traumgänger

Ed_Case · February 1, 2003, 5:03pm

Cool. Also, I might start off by altering existing CDs I’ve got which I have previously bought, by copying them onto the computer and then adding voices to them for my own experimental use. I have various CDs of music that is quite relaxing, so I might start with that and then progress from there to making the music myself.

The advantage of using existing music is to get quick results, so that I can quickly see if there is any effect. Then, if that proves to be promising, the advantage of making the music myself is that I can totally customise it to how I want it, make it just what I find relaxing to listen to.

Ed

Ed_Case · February 1, 2003, 9:37pm

Just a quick update. I have almost finished making my first initial trial version of this. I found a really good relaxation CD that my mum had. I copied this onto the computer, joined it all together as one continuous Wave file lasting about an hour.

I got a trial version of some speach software, and I used a female voice to say the phrases “Is this a dream?” and “Are you dreaming?” I recorded these was Wave files.

I then got my multitrack audio software, and put the relaxing music in it on one track, then on another track I put the 2 voice samples alternating, repeating approximately every 1 minutes (but leaving the first 5 minutes as just the music).

Then I added a nice reverb effect to the voice samples, just to make them feel a bit more atmospheric.

So far it seams to sound quite good. I’ve just yet to make sure that the volume of the voices is aproximately okay. I’m hoping get it finished soon, so that I can then put it on a CDR and then listen to it tonight with my headphones plugged into my CD player beside my bed.

I’ll let you know how it goes, whether I end up having a lucid dream, or just wake up feeling a bit weird.

Ed.

Ed_Case · February 2, 2003, 11:08am

I didn’t have a lucid dream, but it’s early days yet, and that’s what this is all about, experimenting.

In hindsight, I think next time I should have the volume set REALLY low. I had it set quite low last night, but I think I need to have it set REALLY low next time.

Having it set anything more than really low, just seams to distract and keep me awake, because I’m too concious of it all (although interestingly enough, there seamed to be certain points where I was still concious of the music but no longer concious of the voice samples).

The other thing is, maybe I don’t actually have to listen to it all night? Maybe I could just listen to it as I relax in bed in the dark, and then as I feel myself getting sleepy, pulling the headphones off and turning over and going to sleep? OR, maybe I shouldn’t put it on repeat like I did last night, maybe I should just let it play once, and then after it’s finished I can drift off to sleep?

You see, what I’m thinking is, maybe I don’t need to hear it all night, maybe it will still be useful if it’s simply the last thing I heard before going to sleep? Maybe that will work similar to that MILD technique, where the last thing you thought about was that you were going to lucid dream, whereas this way, the last thing I will have heard will have been some lovely gentle music and a voice asking me if I’m dreaming.

If I’ve ever fallen asleep watching a film, I often dream about the film. So, what if that happened and somebody in the film kept asking you if you were dreaming? You might dream that and then actually then realise that you’re dreaming. So maybe the same could work this way with the relaxing music?

Anyway, as I said before, this is all an experiment, so I’m going to try it various ways. I’m also going to try and remember to do other methods to help it, such as reality checks and writing my dreams down.

Side Note: Here’s a positive thing. Usually I only remember my dreams occaisionally, like a 1 or 2 a week maximum, but the last 3 consecutive days I have remembered 1 dream from each night and wrote them down. This is a positive sign isn’t it? I also slightly analyse the dream at the end of my session of writing it down, and I write down any odd things about the dream that could be dream signs. For example, last night I dreamt I was at my uncle’s house in London, but that it looked different, so 2 of the dream signs that I listed were that his house looked different and that he wasn’t there, and also that it was in a different part of London.

Ed.

DJ_Lucid · February 2, 2003, 5:14pm

Ed,
I just wanted to let you know that it sounds like a good idea. I haven’t had any lucid dreams - to be truthful I don’t always remeber to write my dreams down in my diary at the moment. I was thinking of taping a voice telling me to do a reality check as I’ve read that this can be helpful. But your idea of playing the music with the voices over the top just before you fall asleep sounds as though it would work. Like you said, I’ve had dreams about things that I was just thinking about before I feel asleep. Anyway, good luck with your experiment. I hope it helps you out.

Pilot · February 2, 2003, 5:33pm

I’m glad someone’s taken the courage to work with it. The ‘Holy Grail’ method was successful for some people, but for me I have a thing agaist LaBerge and his voice not to mention the irritating song 'sweet dreams are made of… ’ I recently got a cd/mp3 player and I’ve mastered sleeping on my back, one huge leap for myself.

Id be very interested to hear what you have come up with. Maybe you can compress it as an mp3 file and share it on kazaa instead of dealing with shipping costs…just an idea.

I’ve been thining of making some hemi-sync remix along with calming music, nature sounds like raining, and perhaps make use of brainwave generator in the background. I have the means to make one giant mp3 file and let it play all night but I don’t know why I’m not urged to make it.

Keep at it and report your findings. I’m quite sure you’ll be successful.

Ed_Case · February 2, 2003, 6:02pm

Thanks for your positive replies you guys.

I haven’t got round to making my own music to go with it yet. Tonight, just out of curiosity, I’m going to try making one without music, just a voice.

I have made it now, just got to put it to CD for playing on my CD player. It is made up like this: It contains a voice saying “You are dreaming.” I put this right at the start so I can get the volume right to begin with. Then, there is 30 minutes of complete silence (to give me time to drift off to sleep), then after 30 minutes the voice repeats every 5 minutes.

This is just out of curiosity really, to see if using the voice alone will work. I’m still interested in eventually making my own relaxing background music to go along with it too though. That just might take longer, because I don’t want to rush it and it end up sounding rubbish.

Hey, I’ve just had an idea!

Eventually, when I get round to making the music, I could do it like this: I could have the first 30 minutes with no voice, but have the music, but then have the music gradually fade out to let me drift off to sleep, and then have just the voices later on in the CD. It’s just an idea. I’ll probably try it various ways, like this, and also with music all the way through and also with no music at all, and then compare results between them.

As I said, this is an experiment, the idea being that I test a variety of approaches, rather than just sticking with the first idea I have and trying to make that work.

Probably the best way to share it would be to make an MP3 file, then split it into 10 pieces or something (using WinZip), and then upload 1 or 2 at a time to my webspace, and anybody who’s seriously interested can download them while they’re there, and then after a few weeks, all those that wanted a copy will have it, and they can just join the parts of the file together.

Don’t get excited yet though, it might take me a while. I might experiment quite a lot before I settle on a final version.

Ed.

ulrik_tr · February 3, 2003, 10:28pm

Sounds like a great idea! . Maybe mixing some binaural beats into it, would help as well.

Ed_Case · February 4, 2003, 8:22pm

Hey, it’s funny you should say that, because that’s what I’ve decided to do next as the next stage of my experiment.

After trying out the one with just the long silence then the voice every 5 minutes, I realised two things: Firstly, that I needed something before the voices started that could help me get to sleep, and secondly, the voices needed to be further apart (10 minutes instead of 5).

So then what I did was, made a Wave file of the Sleep Induction setting on the Brainwave Generator software, and then put this as the first 30 minutes of the CD. Then, 10 minutes after this has faded out, I have the first voice, then have it repeat every 10 minutes until 80 minutes is reached.

I have made this, but I haven’t tried it out yet. I’m going to try it out tomorrow night (not tonight, for reasons I can’t be bothered to explain).

When I had listened to the one with just the silence before the voices, this didn’t work because I just happened to have trouble getting to sleep that night, so this is why I think the Sleep Induction Binural Beats will help, and then the silence once I am sleeping, then a quiet voice telling me I am dreaming.

Hey, I’ve just had an idea! I may actually be able to combine this idea with my idea of having music in it, because my Sound Editor software has a Brainwave Generator effect which you can apply to any wave file. This way, I could do half an hour of relaxing music, but then add an effect that makes it do a brainwave sweep from high waves down to sleepy brainwaves and then slowly fade out.

Ed

P.S. Wouldn’t it be funny if I ended up coming up with the ultimate lucid dreaming device!

tapir · February 4, 2003, 8:55pm

If you do come out withe ultimate lucid dreaming device, you´ll get:

-50$ instantly transferred to your bank
-A nice “Thank you” postcard
-An imagined hug
-A self-baked cake
-A kingdom, a princess or something similar

Traumgänger

ulrik_tr · February 4, 2003, 9:21pm

Hmm, i don’t know, this is just a thought: If you have, like, 10 minutes of silence, and you then play a voice saying “you’re dreaming”, don’t you think it will wake you up? Because you get scared of the sudden sound? I would .
Maybe it’d be a good idea to include some relaxing sounds/noises between the messages.
TIP: www.findsounds.com . A big search engine where you can search for different sounds.

Ed_Case · February 4, 2003, 9:55pm

I don’t think it would if the voice wasn’t loud, if it was fairly quiet. I think the silence would help with the sleep. I think it’s more a case of having enough silence between the voices and the voices being quiet enough not to wake you.

In my personal experience, when I did the first trial with the music all the way through, it seamed to prevent me from going to sleep more than anything.

I mean, I see what you’re saying, in that having something as background so that the voice isn’t so sudden like it would be on top of silence, well then why not just make the voice quieter so that it’s not so sudden?

Ed.

Ed_Case · February 6, 2003, 7:05pm

Last night I had what I consider to be a positive result from my experimenting. Not a lucid dream, but certainly an interesting experience.

I fell asleep to the sleep induction sound. Then, I didn’t conciously hear the voice speaking, but instead I was suddenly alerted to the feeling that I had just unconciously shouted something out in my sleep, and that I was really embarrassed about it and that people nearby were laughing at me from near my bed or through the walls or something. I could see the dark room and my hands were raised. Then, I started to question whether it had actually happened for real or whether I had dreamt it, and then at that point I woke up for real.

At this point, I didn’t think I’d got as far as hearing the first voice, I actually thought that this had happened almost as soon as the sleep induction sound had faded out. I lay there for a few minutes, curiously waiting for the voice to speak, but it didn’t.

Eventually I got up, turned on the light, and looked at the CD player. The timer was showing 49 minutes something. The first voice was set to play at about 40 minutes, therefore proving that that even though I had not conciously heard the voice speaking to me, it did induce a bizarre dream experience along the lines of speaking and dreams.

I find it encouraging, considering I am new to lucid dreaming, that this had a significant effect on me while asleep without me actually conciously hearing what the voice said. I think that, with repeated use and by making other efforts such as doing reality checks, that this could prove a very good method of inducing dream lucidity.

Ed.

ulrik_tr · February 6, 2003, 10:54pm

Interesting, really…

Jack · February 8, 2003, 12:21pm

I also think it sounds like a good idea.Just wanted to add that timing plays a role here.
Normal person ,without any sleep debt starts REM period in 90 minutes from falling asleep ,it lasts about 10 minutes,then after another 90 mins theres longer REM…so on till waking up.So i guess you need to play around with the times of “are you dreaming” voice.Unfortunately there are many variables-one can hit REM period right off if he hasnt been getting enough slepp recently.And its really hard to say wheter you are in debt or not.
Then we also know we can dream out of REM periods.Then theres a question of right volume.
Just wanted to share this,hope it will somehow help you creating ultimate lucid track(tho i reralize it might be confusing).
good luck.
ps.apart from 50$ ,postcard and hug you can also recieve my kidney if u wish to:)

Ed_Case · February 8, 2003, 2:54pm

Thank you very much for your input, Jack.

I see what you mean about the 90 minute thing. It’s just a shame that a CDR is 80 minutes maximum length of time, because taking that 90-minute idea into consideration, the ideal scenario would be to have the first voice 90 minutes after the end of the sleep induction sound.

Hey, I’ve just had an idea! There is a way we could get round this!

By making the different sections seperate tracks on the CD, and then with the use of track programming on the CD player, it could be set up like this.

Track 1 - 30 minute sleep induction sound (and/or relaxing music)
Track 2 - 30 minute silence track REPEATED 3 TIMES
Track 3 - “You are dreaming” voice.

I could even repeat steps 2 and 3, so that every 90 minutes I get told I am dreaming! In theory, this could make it possible to have every dream as a lucid dream.
(To do that though, I would probably have to alter the length of the silence as time goes on, to account for the increase in length of the REM stages. But this is something that could be dealt with later on. At the moment, to have just one lucid dream a night would be fantastic!)

Again, thanks a great deal for your input, Jack! At first, my heart sank a little because it made me think that the 90 minute thing would pose as a big problem, but the result is it has made me come up with a really good idea. I now realise that maybe I don’t need to be told every 10 mintes that I’m dreaming, it would be better to try and time the voice to coincide with a natural dream period.

Anyway, eventually, once this works, I’ll be so happy to be lucid dreaming, I’ll be perfectly happy to make my creation freely available to anyone that wants it. To me, it will be the same as sharing advice on methods. If I came up with the perfect device, or close to it, then I definately wouldn’t want to just keep it to myself.

Also, I’ll be really interested if anyone else gets inspired to experiment with this kind of thing themselves, and would like to hear your experiences and what works for you.

Ed.

Ascension · February 8, 2003, 3:34pm

Good luck with the experiment Ed. I did experiment before myself with playing back a recorded dream cue that I looped on my computer. No music or anything, just a voice saying “I am aware that I am dreaming”. At first I played it constant the first night. It kept me awake. So the next night I lowered the volume till it was barely audible, and I was able to sleep. However the next day the strangest thing happened. I awoke with no recollection of a LD, but I did feel totally mentally unbalanced…it was scary. When I say mentally unbalanced, it was like a circuit had blown in my head, affecting my balance, and I dunno, it is hard to describe but it was like I was receiving a constant low voltage electric shock. I recovered in a day or so, and just to be sure I tested the recording again at the same volume and the same thing happened again. So I had just discovered the hard way that playing a constant message whilst I am asleep is bad news, it had a really bad effect on me.

The way you seem to be going about it now, trying to time the voices for roughly the REM periods sounds spot on. I would personally think this to be the best way to use a recording. What you are doing now is probably the next step I would have tried, decreasing the frequency of the playing of the voice to try and eradicate the side effects I was getting, but I didn’t go any further with my voice experiments. Believe me when I say I was a bit shaken at the side effects. That being said I would perhaps be a bit dubious about even music playing constantly while I slept. However, fading it in and out as you seem to suggest should be ok. Anyway, good luck with whatever you come up with. Of course I am only reciting my own personal experience, others may not be affected the same as me. My conclusions were that voices could be effective, but they should be played at a long enough interval to avoid negative affects on the brain. After my early experiments, I felt like I had put my mind/brain through a mangler!

I think the results I had were not all bad though, as they highlighted for me the delicate and complex nature of sleep, and the balance between the electrical/chemical activity which must be occurring as we sleep. If this balance is distorted greatly by something, serious imbalance can follow on into the wakened state! But don’t let any of this put you off, I guess I just ripped the arse out of it…your experiment sounds like it has far more potential than mine. In fact if you can get the timing right, and influence REM periods, I guess you could say you have kind of Sonic Novadreamer, playing audio only cues. Of course due to a lack of eye movement sensors it’s timing won’t be as accurate, but the fact that you are giving a direct message (eg: I am dreaming!) as opposed to the flash/beep of the Novadreamer could pay off. Thinking about it, I wish the Novadreamer had messages like that which were played instead of the beep. Now that would be cool

Ed_Case · February 8, 2003, 5:20pm

Thanks for your words of wisdom, Ascension.

The idea of the 30 minutes of binaural beats at the beginning is for sleep induction, because in a test I did earlier involving simply just the voice appearing after a long silence, I realised that this didn’t work if I was having trouble getting to sleep. I find that the Sleep Induction sounds really do work quite well if I am in a relaxed position and the volume is fairly low. So really, this device will be serving a double function, as an aid for getting to sleep as well as an aid for inducing lucid dreams.

But anyway, as I said in an earlier message, I was quite pleased with the interesting result I had when doing my other recent test, with the 30 minute sleep induction and then the voice after 10 minutes. This proved to me that the voice was able to have an effect on my sleeping mind without me conciously hearing it. So I find it encouraging to imagine what will happen if I fine tune the arrangement to coincide with an REM period. I mean, think about it, if what happened before was what happened when I wasn’t particularly dreaming anything (where I had a false awakening and thought I had shouted something out in my sleep and then I questioned whether I was dreaming and then woke up), imagine what will happen if the voice appears whilst I’m in some fantastic dreamscape!

It would probably go something like this:
---- ---- ---- ----

Ed

tapir · February 8, 2003, 6:38pm

I can imagine that a constant voice isn´t healthy Ascension, since scientists say that even sounds that we can´t hear can have a bad influence.

Anyway, Ed, you got a smart idea with programming the CD player.Perhaps it could go like this:

Track1: 10 mins relaxing music only
Track2: 5mins relaxing music with those beats fading in
Track3: 10mins music with beats
Track4: 5mins beats with music fading out
Track5: 10mins the beats only
Track6: 10 mins silence
Track7: 30mins the voice

I haven´t thought a lot about which lenght should be used for which period, but it woul be cool if you´d make several tracks, so everybody can combine them by programming their CD player themselves.