Merging WL and LD: A Test of Sorts

Lucid dreams are fascinating. There is so much to learn and discover. But how much of it is real / true to WL?

I’ve thought of a simple experiment I would like to try, and I’m curious if anyone else has ever “tested” their dreamworld. Here is my test, and please share if you have ever done one of your own:

In WL, I am going to ask my sister to write a sentence on a piece of paper, fold it or put it in an envelope, and give it to me. I will put it somewhere specific in my house. The next time I Lucid Dream I will go to the piece of paper and read it. Then when I wake up I will read the WL paper. Will they be the same?

That’s an interesting experiment. I guess it won’t show the same text. Maybe the paper won’t even be there in your LD or be replaced by something else.

I recommend to conduct the test twice. The first time, after waking up you just look at the WL message. The second time, after waking up you first write down the message from the dream as you recall it, for example in your DJ. Then you have a look at the paper your sister wrote.

Memory is not a very solid thing. It wiggles and bends and changes shape under many different influences. Reading the WL paper and comparing directly with what you remember from the dream may yield a different result than comparing the WL paper with the message as you’ve written it down in your DJ.

Good point! I will do that. It’ll be interesting to compare DJ results to memory results.

We see so many stories of people having precognition, shared Dreams, OBEs, and other extrasensory experiences that suggest dreams are more than just a figment of our mind. But then there are undoubtedly many dream examples that could say the opposite (I had a dream once where I was standing in the middle of a circle of DCs, whose legs were spinning around the circle clockwise, torso counterclockwise, and head clockwise, such that you could get a mix and match between the parts of each person. The people were “real” in the dream, and one of them was even Donald Trump haha). These nonsensical dreams suggest there is nothing otherworldly about our dreams. So where’s the disconnect? How do you know when a dream is just nonsense and when it’s something more?

Because I agree, my initial thought is that the note in my dream will just be unrelated gibberish. But I also thing that that sort of thing IS possible. So what’s the extra ingredient that takes a nonsensical dream and makes it extrasensory? :thinking:

Well I’ve got the envelopes! I labeled one 1 and one 2, and asked my sister to draw or write on a slip of paper in each of them. I gave her an assortment of pens and pencils and left the room while she did them, so I know very little about what’s on each one. They are on either end of my coffee table.

Now the challenge is to get lucid again… I’ve been working hard on all the usual dream methods, but it seems to be a lull for me at the moment.

I would suggest a simpler test. In WL take a random card from the playing cards box. Don’t look what it is and put it somewhere where you cannot easily see it (face up, so you don’t need to turn it in LD). When you are in LD, take a look at this card and remember what it was. When waking up, check the card and see is it the same what you saw in your dream, or not. This test is easier, because you don’t need to manipulate with anything (like opening the envelope, or smt).

I haven’t tried it myself, because I believe that our dreams happen in our head, not in reality. But it might be solid test for those who believe, for example, that OBE is real. Just put the card to the high bookself, for example, where you cannot see it IRL and take a look at it while flying around in LD. Then check it out after waking up IRL.

I appreciate the advice! I can see how that would typically be easier for a dreamer. Funny enough, my lucid dreams are usually quite vivid and realistic, so manipulating objects isn’t hard. Flying on the other hand, I struggle with haha.

I have the 2 envelopes set up now (for two trials) so the only thing left is to actually get lucid… despite consistent practice I’m definitely in a dry spell.

I also like having the envelopes visible on my coffee table because it helps me incubate the experiment and keep it at the forefront of my mind. I’d hate to get lucid and forget all about it!

All that being said though, your feedback is welcome. I’ll probably go throw a card faceup on my top bookshelf as well, so that I have that option in my next LD too! Thank you.

Just some thoughts,
I think dreams and WL are more connected than people give credit. I suspect you’re referring more to the idea of a tangible objective ‘provable,’ connection or extrasensory abilities, opposed to an emotional or subjective personal connection, though.

WL and dreams can overlap, but I think that has more to do with a personal perspective than the tangible.

WL can influence dreams, dreams can inform and inspire WL.

We carry WL to our dreams; our daily experiences and WL thoughts and WL emotions are often reflected in our dreams. We can bring things from our dreams to WL; we can interpret our dreams (sometimes to actionable measures), make art inspired by our dreams, tell our dreams to others (and possibly expand the influence of our dreams in this way) and more.

I believe this is a different kind of merging than you’re referring to, but just wanted to leave the thought here for anyone exploring the connection between the two.


I absolutely agree with everything you’re saying :slight_smile:

While I think all dreams have the potential for affecting or being affected by WL, I also think there are two “categories” of dreams, the one making up the bulk of our dreams and the other… well, the other is just special dreams. Ones that have an extra something that makes you wake up and think there was more to it. Like it was so significant feeling that it couldn’t have just been something purely imagined by semi-randomly firing neurons. I’ve had only a handful of dreams like these but they usually stand out. Usually they’re lucid but I think that does not need to always be the case. “The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep” by Tenzin Rinpoche actually talks about these two kinds of dreams, it’s really interesting.

And without further ado, I actually have a result to the experiment (at last!). More to come…

Completed the experiment in a lucid dream last night. I have not opened the WL corresponding envelope yet. Will document the dream first and then open it, so there are no biases. I also had my sister do two envelopes (labelled 1 and 2), and only opened 1 (that I can remember). So there is still opportunity to do this another time, which I’m thankful for, because I had at least 5 short NDs after this LD, which made recall a bit tough, although one thing I can recall for certain was that it was very vivid. Okay…

May 31, 2022
I am on a backpacking trip with my old roommate J. My dog is with us. We are setting up camp for the night on an old tent pad where the delineating logs of the tent pad are old and deteriorating. Everything’s a bit grown over. There is a waterfall nearby. Suddenly I’m fetching something from a root cellar. I spontaneously become lucid. I do the nose pinch RC which doesn’t work for a second and I think its because I didn’t plug my nose properly and this is actually waking life. I try again. Definitely a dream! Awareness sharply increases until my body is buzzing. I’ve only had this level of heightened awareness in a dream once before, and it was another dream (like this one) that I would consider one of my few special dreams (for lack of a better word; see previous entry). I call Janet. For those who don’t know who Janet is, watch the first episode of The Good Place TV show. She pops up when someone says her name and can do anything you want, so I use her as my command centre. I think there is more to her in my dreams though… possibly representing my subconscious or a dream guide / spirit guide. I wait. At first she doesn’t show up, and someone else walks into the root cellar (can’t remember who, male I think). He walks past me and I ignore him, intent on my goal.
“Hey Janet,” I say again.
There is another pause and I start to think it wont work.
“Hey there!” Janet says as she pops her head out of the side room/closet entryway behind the main door. I laugh at her delight to mess with me. I’m sooo excited that it worked again that I squeal in excitement and hug her. I remember feeling the details of my arms around her, and her “realness”. This is a recurring theme from my so-called “special” dreams: getting super excited doesn’t wake me up. Which is crazy because we all know, if you get lucid, do not get excited or you will wake yourself up!!. In these dreams, there seems to be no risk of waking up, because the dream itself is the “here and now”.
…memory of the dream starts to get a bit fuzzy here, but I know that I ask her for the envelopes off of my coffee table. First she gives me some other envelopes that either have no label or an incorrect label. We are standing in front of a chest-height shelf or table now in the root cellar, and it looks like she is managing a bunch of papers and other small beige envelopes like the ones on my coffee table. I tell her these aren’t the right ones, and I point to the right ones. I can see the numbers standing out just like I drew them in real life (block-letter style in black with a metallic green border). She takes back the wrong ones and passes the right ones to me without saying anything. It looks like she is doing something important with everything on the desk/shelf and I think that I should understand and help her with what she is doing, because I have a sense that everything about her and what she does is important for me somehow. I say out loud that I just want to look at these envelopes first and then I will participate.
I open the envelope #1.
Slowly unfold the paper.
Unexpectedly, it is a lengthy amount of text. I read it and come to recognize it as a kind of prophecy for me. It started with a word written with emphasis, clearly a word for contemplation over. The rest was written in a bit of a poetic style, short lines, cryptic meanings. I can’t for the life of me remember the word, except that it was a long-ish word I know with a short (3-4 letters) suffix at the end written in italics. The suffix was something like xaon or xion, nothing I recognize. The long word almost definitely started with an a or e and was fairly neutral in meaning… adventure… exception… alphabet…
The rest of the poetic prophecy, although I don’t remember it, amounted to tell me something like keep on as you are or you’re going in the right direction or you’re doing everything just right… something reassuring and positive.
I’m looking at this and willing myself to remember. I’m also thinking that there is no way my sister would have written something like this, so it must be part of my dream. I further inspect the paper and the envelope. I can’t remember where I saw it but on one of those surfaces was a cute little doodle of a bull, or cow with horns. My memory even thinks it might have had horns on its nose instead of on its head, more like tusks (maybe a warthog?). I believe it was just in black or grey ink/charcoal. Can’t remember the background color, and don’t remember any other colors. I had the impression that this doodle was here for a while, like before I gave the paper to my sister. Pages were definitely blank when I gave them to my sister.
I did not open the second envelope (that I can remember).
From here I lose memory of the dream until it lapses back into an ND or transitions into a new ND. I have at least 4 different ND’s or fragments which feel like separate dreams, except they all contain a recurring theme, where a DC I am interacting with or associating with is an aboriginal / First Nation female. It’s a different DC each time. One time was a daughter of the tribe’s chief, other times she is in modern society. Haven’t figured out the significance of that but very interesting that all 4 or 5 share that theme.

Here is a sketch that I made of the doodle I remember in the dream. I think there’s some bias because of how I know my sister’s drawing style is, but I can’t untangle my biases from the blurry memories, so this is as close as I can get:

I will open the WL envelope tomorrow morning. Stay tuned!


Oh and I should also mentioned I don’t actually know which envelope I openedin the dream… I’ve just been assuming it was the one labeled “1” but I don’t actually have any explicit memory of that fact. Seeing as that makes the most sense though, that’s what I’m going with.

Okay, results!

The waking life entry in envelope 1 was in fact…


Not a bull. Or a warthog. Not even a drawing for that matter! It was a nickname my sister used to call me when we were younger (which shall remain unnamed here haha).

I’m not that discouraged though. To do science you obviously need a sample size bigger than one! So, onwards! Now for envelope 2!