Microcosmic Orbit

I wonder if someone is practicing the Microcosmic Orbit, as described in the books of Mantak Chia. It’s alike the New Energy Ways (NEW) methods from Robert Bruce, but the difference is that Robert Bruce discovered his methods by experimenting on his own, while the Microcosmic Orbit is an incredibly ancient Taoist method which has been refined over many centuries of experimenting.

Here’s a short description of it:

If you’re able to let the energy flow automatically, you’ll become much more calm and aware. And probably you’ll have more extraordinary dreams, because the throat energy point for instance is correlated with dreaming. If this point is opened or if chi flows through it, lucidity will increase in your dreams :smile:

A big difference between this system and the Indian yogi system is that the latter only brings the energy to the top of the head, the crown chakra, and even transcends it. The Microcosmic Orbit on the other hand lets the energy circle inside the body in a pattern according to the major acupuncture energy points, thus reducing the chances of building up energy in the head (with possible negative effects).

Just like to know if someone knows about it, or even if he/she practiced it :smile:

everyday… or close to it :yinyang:

hmm… i have noticed a more positive effect on my dreams (not sure though) by concentrating the energy on my third eye for a couple of seconds before continuing the circulation rather than the throat chakra… i dunno, i’m sure it was stimulated just by doing the whole circulation though… ahhh whatever :smile:

which book did you get that quote from btw ???

Nice one :smile: Personally I haven’t opened my throat center yet, but I’ve read somewhere about it’s effects on LDing… But the effects probably also depend on who you are. I don’t really know.
How long did you need to practice before the orbit was completed? And do you notice physical changes as a result?
I’m only just starting on this. So far I’ve practiced a lot on the Inner Smile which is going great, and the navel point. Curiously though, when I concentrate on my navel, I feel glowing warmth in the foot points, third eye and perineum… but I don’t feel anything in my navel. However, yesterday I did notice a severe headache, which might be a side-effect of my navel concentration.
I got the quote from holisticwebs.com/crystal/tao.html
but it’s taken from Mantak Chia - Awaken Healing Energy Through The Tao
Excellent book actually :smile:

orbit completed ??? do you mean how long it took me to be able to move the energy around the full circuit. i was doing that almost immediately, but being good at doing that… let’s just say i’ve been doing this for almost 3 years… maybe more… and i periodically discover better ways to orbit the energy, i still have some blockages in my front channel that i’m trying to clean out, not nearly as blocked up as when i first started though

physical changes… hmm… i concentrated on orbiting my sexual energy while i was intimate with one of my ex girlfriends… when we were cuddling afterward she always told me that i was “REALLY warm” i wasn’t sure if i was just naturally “REALLY warm” or if it was a result of doing the orbits (or maybe regularly doing the orbits made me naturally really warm shrug i’m not sure though) but i do know that i was fine and her cuddling all up on me just made me hot to the point that i was about to start sweating (why are women always cold ???)

oh yeah, another physical effect (this is still a theory i’m working on so don’t take it as fact) but i have noticed a weird correlation. i usually do the orbitting with sexual energy (the exercise is called “the big draw”) i noticed that whenever i lose my concentration and ejaculate (ie lose some energy) it’s okay if i just do it once, but if i do it a couple times i will get a lil sick if it’s around cold season or the weather is going from hot to cold and back again, that’ll make me sick if i’ve been ejaculating a lil too much lately. but when i successfully store and transmute the energy and keep it all inside i stay healthy. again i’m not saying that circulating will make your immune system invincible, but i have noticed a positive effect shrug it could be related to other things though

also… i’ve noticed that i’m a lot more sexually sensitive (probably because i’m sensitizing myself with all that self-cultivation) which is a good and bad thing. good that i can get powerful whole-body orgasms rather quickly and can last longer in bed (when i have a partner anyway, which i don’t right now :sad: ) and bad that it’s easy to get too hot too fast and ejaculate rather quickly as well :bored: it’s a dual-edged sword

i can’t really make any comparison because i started drinking after i had already been doing the cultivation exercises regularly, so maybe it’s just how my body is and not an effect of doing the microcosmic orbiting, but i find that i’m quite sensitive to alcohol and get drunk really quickly. like i can take a shot or two, and immediately feel the alcohol going through my system, but that might just be an effect of increased awareness of my body that the exercises have given me. same thing with weed (i’ve only done that twice though)

anyway, you only asked about physical changes as a result of the practice, but i’ve noticed some emotional ones too. i get mad less, get frustrated less, i’m getting more and more even-tempered. i believe it has a positive effect on my dreaming. i’ve noticed that i’ll usually have a rather vivid dream after a good cultivation session whether that dream is lucid or not. and i have had some moments (not everyday or anything but every once in a while) that i would definitely describe as transcendental

as you can tell… the sexual energy excercises are my favorite. sexual energy is so hot that it’s a lot easier to feel and activate and much more powerful to work with, if you don’t have it, let me suggest “The Multi-Orgasmic Man” by mantak chia

that is a curious phenomenon, i can’t say that i’ve ever experienced that :neutral: anyway, make sure that when you’re done with your practice to store you energy at a collection point. i’ve never gotten a headache from practice, and i intend to keep it that way :smile:

ok, i could go on and on, but i’m sure you’re going cross-eyed from reading all this, so i’ll shut up now :yinyang:

oh yeah, keep up the practicing (however you choose to practice) this is some good stuff

Yeah that’s what I meant. Wrong choice of words I know :smile:

It’s pretty amazing that you felt it right away. Apparently, the Force is strong with you :wink: Have you ever done any higher Taoist practices (Iron Shirt Chi Kung, Fusion of the Five Elements,…)?

Concentrating on the orbit alone releases some heat, as does the flowing of chi. So perhaps it was a combination of the two. I felt this too last year when I was doing chakra meditation: chi was flowing from my feet to the root chakra, and after some time it became quite intense. I could actually feel the warmth coming from the chi flow when I held my hand a few inches above my skin. This only happened once though…

Too much Yin energy :tongue:

Hm it’s strange that you actually become sick from ejaculating too much during specific seasonal changes… Sperm energy is extremely powerful indeed and needs to be stored carefully. But I don’t understand the impact of cold/hot weather on this… Probably got something to do with a disturbance in the Yin/Yang balance.

Nice results :smile: So this book seems to be telling the truth. Hehe good to hear. There’s way too much quackery going on in this field so it’s often difficult to determine whether or not they’re telling the truth about the topic.

Well, for now I’m going to work on the basic Mircocosmic Orbit. Once this is “mastered”, I’ll start developping the sperm energy.
I’ve read about the book you mentioned, and I’ll probably order it some day :smile: Just recently I’ve ordered his book Awaken Healing Light Through The Tao.

Yes I think I díd manage to flow the chi but I didn’t feel it. I probably got the headache because I didn’t store the energy back into the navel center. Hm I won’t forget it anymore :smile:

Definitely :smile:

I always start zazen with the microcosmic, for more than a year now and focus point ok down the front but can’t feel it up my spine, usually causes pressure on third eye. it’s good to calm my thoughts and get my mind on breathing. maybe the extra focus helps in feeling the chakra points better, can’t be sure.

macrocosmic I do a little in standing, feet together hands flared at the sides, helps keep me centered. trying to stop the motion doesn’t help, while any flow or focus does.

yep it’s a struggle at the start when you can’t feel or understand everything, but we’re getting there :smile:

Havent read or tried that before. But Robert Bruce’s technicue is familiar to me, i do it irregularily every now and then. Should get more into it as i can feel how profound it is. Though i have my fears about it too, not knowing if i push too far as it seems to affect me a lot. Usually instead of NEW i just do normal self relaxation, letting warm relaxing waves rise from my feet up, that way its seems subtle enough and i dont have to worry if im over activating anything.

goes read that site mystic gave in more detail

Guess ill have to order some books by this Mantak Chia fella. :smile:

yeah i have tried both of those, i picked them up in a book called “Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy” written by one of mantak chia’s students eric steven yudelove. i don’t do them anymore really. i guess you could say that i specialize in the sexual energy cultivation aspect

i’ve been meaning to get back into doing that actually, the culmination of the fusion of the five elements where you make the “pearl” i think it’s called, is really cool. maybe i could find a way to synthesize the fusion of five elements practice with the sexual energy practice that i’m already good at so i don’t have to start from scratch

in fact i’m starting to develop a theory that sexual energy cultivation is analogous to doing fusion of the five elements on a certain level, but i won’t get into that

cool !!!

hhahahah, you might be on to something there :content:

have you never gotten sick (or known people to get sick) when the weather won’t make up its mind and it’s short-sleeve weather one day and then cold the next day and back again. maybe it’s a north carolina thing, but i know a buncha people who are like “i’m sick, i don’t know why though” and then the classic answer is “the weather’s been changing a lot lately”

i think when i get low on sexual energy by ejaculating too much when the weather is being stupid and won’t make up its mind, it has a greater effect on me and gets me a lil sick

quackery ??? i’m not too sure about that, i think there’s a lotta good stuff out there, but chia and his students are simply the best at explaining this stuff in a manner palatable to a western audience

sounds like a good idea to me

oh i’d just like to add that if you like all this taoist internal alchemy stuff you’ll probably also enjoy some taoist philosophical classics. stephen miller’s translation of the “Tao Te Ching” is by far my all time favorite book, and i HIGHLY recommend it. it’s very short with 80 chapters (a chapter is like a page long) but very deep and philosophical, and judging from your signature, i take it you like philosophy :yinyang:

that and i’m reading “The Taoist I Ching” translated by thomas cleary, which i will only recommend if you happen to like things that are esoteric and their meaning not at all obvious (even more so than the tao te ching) it’s very very HEAVY reading, but i enjoy it.

i think reading taoist philosophy is an excellent supplement to doing taoist practice, you start to see how some alchemical formulas translate into everyday life

i read somewhere that some people have trouble bringing energy up their spine, for these people it was acceptable to do the orbit backward from the way it’s normally suggested it be performed. ie up the front channel and down the back channel (the spine)

after i read that, i started cycling the energy both ways just for the hell of it :yinyang:

Yes you have to be careful when you flow the chi, because accumulation of chi may cause some negative side-effects. Bruce hardly mentions any possible side-effects. When reading his books he gives you this feeling that you can experiment whatever you want, because presumably it can’t hurt very much. In this sense, Mantak Chia explains it MUCH better on how to avoid side-effects and in case they should occur, what to do next in order to diminish their effects. If you follow the rules, nothing bad will happen to you. But you have to know the rules ofcourse :smile: One such rule is that you don’t overdo your practice: in the beginning practice about 15-20 minutes a day. No more. And solely on relaxing, Inner Smiling and perhaps navel concentration. When you’re done, ALWAYS store the energy back in the navel storage center (I failed to do it once, hence my severe headache). Bruce mentions this too, but he doesn’t really emphasizes its importance.

Here’s his website: universal-tao.com/ :smile:

Lol I don’t think this is very common here where I live :smile: As far as I can remember, this only happened when the weather changed rather extremely.

You’re probably right, but esoterism in general attracks also lots of wannabe-healers who are more concerned about how to make money as fast as possible by publishing loads of pseudo literature. I know now that Chia and his students are not like those people, but you don’t know that in the beginning. Then it’s always healthy to remain a little critical towards esoteric books, at least before you know for sure it’s the real stuff :smile:

Yes I have the Tao Te Ching (a Dutch translation by Prof. Van Praag). Lol I always need to reread every chapter at least a few times before I could grasp perhaps a tiny fraction of the full meaning of those words. The depth of Lao Tzu’s words is truly amazing!
Some time ago I wanted to start on the I Ching… but it looked too difficult. Perhaps in the future :smile:

can’t recall this Master’s name or site, but he mentioned sex is best in spring and summer, worst in fall and winter where it should be totally avoided, impossible in some places with long winters :tongue: I also heard doing embracing the tree right after ejaculating is very bad, like forcing a recovering horse to run a race… ahhhh too many rumors

The danger with chi is that it can accumulate in the head, causing headaches, dizziness, insomnia… The first sign is cold feet and cold hands.
Recently I have linked Chi practice with LD. Practicing meditation and conscious breathing during LD, it arises much energy, and when awakening, this energy is still here for several minutes, sometimes longer, like a vibration in the whole physical body. And now I have the same with some yoga practices in the waking state.
I have developped a breathing technique during dreams which allows me - in good conditions - to have very great control on the dreams (see my post “can you do this ?”).
Many of the experiences I described in this post are based on daily and LD meditation. Energy can be very high in LD, but meditation has to be performed in the intermediate state (black void without dream), not in the dream. I’ll explain later the reasons if some people are interested.

Sorry to butt in, but you people seem pretty advanced Chi users, I had to try for some answers here. I’ve been doing that chi/psi ball thing for about 2 - 3 years, with other variations that seem natural to me. Now using chi is just like using my arm, automatic.

So, may I ask where these chakra’s you were talking about are and what the five elements are? Also, any general info on Chi would be greatly appreciated. Can’t really talk about all the things I could possibly share here right now sorry, I’ll say another time maybe.

wow !!! tell you about chakras and the five elements… that’s a TALL order… i’ll give you a brief summary but keep in mind i am not doing the subject ANY justice with this terse description

chakra is a sanskrit word i believe, that translates as “wheel of light” they are of different colors (colors from the rainbow) and are located at different points in your body. one at your perineum, your navel, solar plexus, heart, throat, third eye, crown of the head. chakras are vortexes of energy that act as energy transformers (ie they change one form of energy into another)

five elements are fire, water, earth metal, and wood (there’s an order to that i believe, and i don’t think i said that in the correct order) basically they are 5 different types of energy in the human body. the ultimate goal is to have all those energies balanced. one can mix all five of them and fuse them together to make the “energy pearl” or something like that, it’s really quite cool

but like i said, i didn’t do this subject ANY justice, i suggest you pick up some books on it “Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy” by eric steven yudelove, is a REALLY good intro book in you’re interested in five elements stuff. i have a book called tantric yoga that looks promising but i can’t give it a good review cause i haven’t read it yet :smile: but it does talk about chakras and such

hope that answered your question :yinyang:

really? have you considered any of the martial arts or yoga?

Why is it that some have the elements as earth, water, fire, air, ether? To me this sounds more reasonable as it covers solid, liquid, chemical change, gas, and ether :confused:


What do you call Chi ? I mean, if you are using chi like this, you must feel all the chakras very well.

if i am not mistaken… i’m fairly sure that the elements you listed come from wicca not taoism (which is where the elements i listed came from)

i don’t know enough about wicca to speculate on if the taoist elements and the wiccan elements are one in the same or describing different phenomena altogether, but if i were to make an educated guess (and i do say this is a guess so no wiccans come in here yelling at me if i get this wrong) but i think the wiccan elements are about things outside the human body while the taoist elements have more of a fucus about the elements inside the body

I’ve actually been doing Taekwondo for about four years now, but whenever people say to use Chi in martial arts I wonder…how? (Specific examples please)

About chakras, actually I feel more chi in certain areas when I’m in different moods, happiness sees an increase in chi in the throat and other areas(damn it I should have written them down) and anger and depression seem to destroy chi in the center of the torso. I almost am always aware of my ‘aura’(bad name for it) of chi around me, sometimes it feels like fire(not painful though).

Thanks for the info on chakras.

according to tibetan buddhism the five elements are
fire, air, water, earth and space [which includes the ether].
the four dualistic elements [fire,air,water,earth] dance/play
in the fifth, neutral element of space. nevertheless are they
also pure lights in their essence but take up solid forms in
what we perceive as our everyday reality. space however
always remains empty/neutral. i can heartly recommend
“Healing with Form, Energy and Light” by Tenzin Wangyal
Rinpoche if youre interested in the balance of the elements,
which is for me one of the most enlightening books
ive ever read.

there is a simple and effective technique to balance the
two energy flows [positive/negative] inside the body
called “The Nine Purification Breaths” :
i) close the left nostril with the index finger of your right
hand and breath in [visualising pure green light streaming
in through the right side of your body]. close the right nostril
with the same finger
and breath out [visualising negative energy from the past
flowing out of the left side of your body]
repeat this 3 times.
ii) close the right nostril with the index finger of your left
hand and breath in [visualising pure green light streming
in through the left side of your body]. close the left nostril
with the same finger and breath out [visualising negative
energy which is about to come your way in the future
flowing our of the right side of your body].
repeat this 3 times.
iii) leave both nostrils open and breath in[visualising green and blue
light flowings in through the center of your body].
hold your breath after breathing in and try to remain
in the present - full awareness of all your senses.
breath out [visualising negative energy of the present
flowing out of your body].
repeat this 3 times.

this exercience will not only make you more balance but also
train your ability to remain in pure awareness, which is needed
for lucid dreaming. buddhist monks are advised to do this exercise
before their nightly sleep.

on chakras:
a powerful way to open the energy of the chakras is to meditate
upon the planets, which accord to the chakras :
sun - sahasrara
mercury - third eye
venus - throat
earth - heart
mars - manipura
jupiter - svadishthana
saturn - muladhara


think about a fire burning just below and behind your navel, when you do a kick imagine the fire shooting from your leg and out your foot at the moment of impact with your imaginary target (or actual target if you’re hitting a mit or heavy bag) and coordinate that visualization with your breathing (so you’re breathing out as you’re doing the technique and throwing out the imaginary fire)

try the same for your hand techniques too. i think martial arts teaches one to use their chi effectively, but these visualizations help with focusing and refining that process. chi is just energy after all, you’re using chi when you throw a punch or kick, even using it while you’re sitting at your computer typing :yinyang:

thanks a lot, that will be useful.

I was shocked to hear about that ‘green light’ thing, as that is what I first found was effective when I found out how to use this weird ‘force’ type thing(I was later told it was chi). Is green light significant in any way? And while we’re on this subject is the moon?