Do you people think it is theoretically possible to invent a device that can record your dreams onto video? I believe this probably will never be invented, because i think the brain will not be fully understood (is this necessary btw?) before mankind dies.
But just thinking of if it: do you think such a device could be developed, if the human brain is fully understood? Do you even think that it is possible to invent a device that enables people to relive other people’s dreams as if they themselves had those dreams?
One last question: do you think that such a device will ever be really developed (in 1000s of years to come maybe)?
they have figured out a way to see what a cat sees through it’s eyes, it’s only a matter of time… and… if government uses this stuff, which it probably would…
(i cannot find the article but you might find it on BBC, this is where i initially read it)
I don’t think it is possible, even if we should know the exact mechanics of the brain. There’s a huge difference between seeing what other beings see in waking life and recording dreams. Take for instance the cat experiment: during the experiment, the cat and the investigating scientists share the same perspective towards reality. They both experience the same external and objective reality. The only differences are to be found in the different processing mechanisms of the external stimuli, which reflects in a slightly different sight. But a pencil remains the same, whether it’s seen by the scientist or the cat. The interpretation of the object “pencil” is another story ofcourse… The device only shows the different interpretation of the same external stimuli which were also available for the scientists.
However, if you want to record someone’s dreams, you have to record a purely subjective thought-influenced and endlessly fluctuating phenomenon (the dream) as a purely objective one (the recorded videotape). This is a huge shift which is impossible to bridge, because the dream can only be seen through your own personal identity (with the aid of some useful dream eyes ofcourse ). Scientist and test object experience different levels of consciousness and reality. The reality of the dream can never be seen by an outsider. The outsider can only record the various neural impulses and internal stimuli which are the cause (and effect?) of the dream.
Science will only be able to develop devices which can record experiences of the same level. So if you want to record your dreams on video, you don’t need real scientists, but dream scientists. They will be able to do the job
well part of the goal was to see if cats are psychotic and hallucinating
I believe that when you see stuff in dreams, the visual info is sent to your eyes, when you hear, to your ears.
Why do we go into REM ? Why do we look around with our eyes? I thought Laberge proved if you look at something to the left of you in your dream, you eyes move.
He proved that breathing is still controllable while dreaming…
it’s just really advanced hallucinations, I don’t see why they can’t be recorded, no, the brain signals themselves might not be easily decipherable, but the end results, auditory and visual hallucinations, should be able to be picked up.
plus all humans function remarkbaly the same, even in dreams, I’m sure we all dream the same way whatever that way is, there are just a lot of little nuances to figure out.
uh… I see that the other way around. If you move your eyes in real life, that’s what happens in your dream, if you breathe differenly in real life, that’s what happens in your dream. It’s all interconnected. It’s just that these are the only things that aren’t paralyzed. Although that’s just the way I see it, when I think about it I might well be wrong. IT just seems pointless to me that this stuff will be sent to your eyes.
Overall I don’t think it would be impossible to record dreams, just a very hard thing to do…
well I don’t know about you, but I have woken up from a dream about staring at a gemoetric figure, and had the figure STAY in my vision while I was up and looking at things (and RCing) i drew the figure and it was still drawn in the morning so it happened for real.
So that meant, that I was seeing what I saw, with my eyes… wouldn’t it? Or maybe it just flashed over from my “dream eyes” to my real ones, but I would think, as you said, the stimuli are interconnected.
you hear a dog bark in your dream it turns into a car horn (i’ve had this happen)
someone talks to you in your dream your “hear” their voice… it might not actually reach your ears, ever, but it triggers the same part of your brain that is responsible for decoding auditory sounds…
so it works on the same principle… monitor the … visual cortex (?) and you will see that it’s being sent information… ?
I would think that is how it works. Maybe someone more scientific can help.
Exactly. I can imagine how difficult recording dreams to video format would be. Obviously, recording what you see in RL onto video would be much easier (just ‘copy’ it from your retina or any part of the process before the images reach your brain). However, if you want to record your dreams, you’ll have to delve much deeper into the brain, probably in the visual cortex. It’ll probably be done one day, but I seriously doubt it will be during my lifetime.
This still makes it sound as if you can actually get an objective movie of a subjective experience. This might work if every dreamscape can be traced back to a very specific sequence of neural stimuli. Record these stimuli and you have the resulting dreamscape. Yes this might work. But I think dreams are more than just neural activity. Neural stimuli might generate the dreamscape to a certain extent, but the aspects which make dreams so unique and personal, are the result of a profound interaction with consciousness, at various levels. The device should therefore be able to measure also the consciousness interactions. I don’t think scientists will ever be able to pinpoint consciousness (and sub/unconsciousness) to specific brain activity. They reason consciousness is the result of brain activity, while I think it’s just the other way round. Which explains why I think it will be impossible to invent such a device.
We might dream more or less the same way, because we all share more or less the same reality model. Therefore, the raw dream structures may be pretty much the same, coloured by our own personal psyche. Change your view on reality and your dreams will alter too.
They happen simultaneously of course, I think the difference is whether your “dream self” controls your eyes, causing them to move in real life, or if your actual body moves the eyes for no reason, causing you to move them in your dream.
LaBerge, etc. did the experiment where they were lucid and deliberately moved their eyes a certain way, and this eye movement was reflected in their actual bodies. Since your lucid dream self can cause your eyes to move IRL, it stands to reason that your non-lucid dream self can cause your eyes to move IRL.
hmm the way I said it did make it sound kinda involuntary… What I meant was, your mind reacts to what happens in your dream by sending your eyes signals to move, thus making them move in your dream world too, rather than just spontaneously moving.
Still, as I’ve already said, I’m no expert .
Experiments have shown that eyes of non-lucid dreamers were following the objets they were dreaming about.
But it is not because eyes move that you can induce to what they see. It’s like a surveillance camera. It moves, but you can not create the image from the movement alone.
Concerning the dream tape, in my understanding, when we elaborate seeing ( in RL and in dreams ), there are thousands of tiny electric variations in thousands of neurons. Their locations are not the same at different time and in different brains. I hardly imagine how we can 1) record them 2) create an image from this information.
I think this will will one day be possible over a long period of time and research. The only way they will be able to have access from information directly from the brain though, is when they find out a way to actually take information from the neurons and somehow transfer that to a computer ( or whatever advanced bio-electronics would be used in that era). They already know how to use electric currents to stimulate parts of the brain… so they just got to figure out how to actually retrieve information directly.
Anyway, it would be cool if that would be possible. I could just see crowding around the TV (or other futuristic media device) to watch a cool lucid dream from the previous night.
Hmm, and if it’s possbile to “slow down” time in your dream (make 3 hours in real time seem like 3 years in dream time), would you need 3 years of videotape to record it on, or would 3 hours be enough? (The movie would seem REALLY REALLY fastforward ^^)
I don’t think it’s possible… because I don’t think that dreaming has anything to do with your brain.
(although I liked the dream machine from prof. Barabas (I don’t know his english name)
First af al, IF dreaming would give the same energy in your brain as the same experience would have in real life. I think it IS possible… Because when you would find out what energy/electronical parts however it is called if we could find out that if someone sees a read dress… it’s the same as braincell number 978562 in group B is active (for the color read) and braincell number 6532 (for the dress) if we could do that, and dreams give the same brainactivity on the same places but only the activity is stopped before it reaches any senses. It would be possible to record dreamings.
(you will have a 3 hour tape with really really fastforward recording on it. If you would dream three years)
But… I don’t think that is true, so I don’t think it’s possible to tape dreams. Why don’t I think it’s true???
Because of the Near Death Experiences people have when there is NO dreamactivity… together with the statement of people who think a Near Death Experience is just a dream…
Although I don’t think that… I think its compareble… It’s just living in an other world inside your brain (in a other dimension) … so I really think dreaming has nothing to do with brain activity, and so also nothing to do with your brains…
If you’ve ever seen the movie “Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within,” one of the first scenes of the movie is the main character having and recording one of her dreams. I just thought that was a worthy comment.
Huh, I am just writing a book where some people invite a device possible to bring objects from dreams to virtual reality. If it is impossible, my book is bullshit… :’( But I believe it is theoretically possible, though it does not necessarily mean it will be done. It is really a complicated task for the science… First, because we still do not know, how the brain really works, in detail. Second, because it must be a device, getting information about the state of every brain cell (and we don’t want to have 10000000000 electrodes stuck into our head, do we?) Third, the deciphering will be different for different people, because it is not necessary that if one person always sees something when having some signal in some center, that another person will see the same thing. So, the system will have to be set up for every person whose dreams are going to be recorded… I am also afraid, that the videotape only, without other feelings, would be not enough to understand somebody’s dream. And if you can translate all the information straight into the audience’s brains… I am afraid, that if such thing is ever invented, dreams will be the last thing the scientist will dream about. But I believe simpler devices will be invented rather soon (thought I don’t think to live as long ), which will just say, without showing the whole picture, what the dream is about… It could help to remember dreams, for example…
Interesting research on the cat. Something about it really doesnt sit well with me but it is certainly interesting.
It doesnt shed much light on just how the brain is supposed to produce consciousness because the visuals the experimenters produce are not the visuals the cat sees. The visuals they produce are on a monitor: where are the visuals the cat sees? Literally everything scientists observe will not be what the cat ACTUALLY sees, only the cat can see that…
But maybe, in theory, a dream record device is possible. Would certainly be interesting. Not sure I’d want all my dreams recorded but maybe some of the better ones. But again, you wouldnt ACTUALLY be seeing the dream itself,you’d be seeing the visuals of it on a tv screen. The emotion of the moment wouldnt be there…
Basically although I find the research interesting, I don’t think it is worth doing considering the ethical questions it raises. Of course that won’t stop it happening…
). Scientist and test object experience different levels of consciousness and reality. The reality of the dream can never be seen by an outsider. The outsider can only record the various neural impulses and internal stimuli which are the cause (and effect?) of the dream.
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But I believe simpler devices will be invented rather soon (thought I don’t think to live as long