What are everyones views on psychokinesis?(could also be called telekinesis)

I think it is possible, after viewing a site relating to it.

It’s a tough topic to investigate. Depending on your belief system, some would demand that in order for a phenomenon to be proven and accepted, it has to be observed an in official capacity at least once. Now, amateur videos and word-of-mouth aside, it’s generally appreciated among the scientific community (uh oh, the “S” word!) that no such demonstration has ever been witnessed in an appropriate environment, and under conditions that would highlight any apparent success while removing other potential explanations. I.e: a laboratory.

Of course, we can still speculate on the possibility of telekinesis being a viable ability if we consider it on a theoretical level. For example, in chemistry, we don’t necessarily need to witness how two substances react to each other in order to work out what would undoubtedly happen if we went ahead and tried it. All we need to do is learn the rules that the universe employs to calculate such an event, and then we can perform the calculations ourselves without ever needing to see it happen in the real world. And we know a lot of these rules, so we can predict the outcome of pretty much any physical event.

Getting to the point, I do not believe (at this stage) that any of these observable rules allow for the results we would expect to see if someone was genuinely moving objects with their mind. There’s just no mechanism in place to allow for it. If an object moves, then something has to have moved it. Something has to exert the force necessary to overcome the object’s weight and friction, and I can’t see a source that would generate this power. If you can move a pencil without having to exert physical energy onto it, then why not move a whole star system? Breaking physics is breaking physics, scale is irrelevant.

Anyway, this is a strictly scientific approach to the problem, and if you subscribe to any kind of spiritual beliefs, then don’t take it too seriously. :wink:

Oh, and could you post a link to this website that seems to have influenced your opinion on the topic? I’d be interested to see it.

(I renamed the topic to be a little more meaningful - hope you don’t mind).

Thanks the new name makes sense. I just see telekinesis as an improper term, but I knew it was the only way some people might understand what I was trying to convey.

the sites are

Even if some people on the forum can’t be trusted, but even I couldn’t know that, but I believe they are observing something that should be looked at more. One kid did an exeriment with a blind girl and a psiwheel under a glass cup. He said he didn’t tell her about the cup and she started doing it. He said his focus was to demonstrate how the only limitation on it is our own limitations set by ourselves. And one guy was talking about his theory and what he has been writing. It sounded pretty logical, but I think that was ppsociety. And their forums need a screening process for members, and mine still says ‘pending’. I say check it out and make your own decisions.

I would say its true. I can bend a spoon using only my hands! But seriously, the avrage human being uses about 5 percent of their brain, telekinesis could be possible, if only you could use that extra potential in your brain. I think everyone is born with potential. whether they use it is a different matter.

I don’t believe it’s possible. Maybe in fifty years or so they might be able to hook up a computer or robot with someone’s brain signals and move things around with the computer, but telekinesis alone… no way.

I don’t believe it’s possible. I’ve seen a lot of claims on the Internet that people can do it, and surprise! They don’t give any proof of their claims :tongue:
Being an amateur magician, I am also well aware of a lot of the effects used to do levitation and telekinesis illusions, and most claims of these phenomenon can be debunked because they use the same effects that magicians use (except magicians do it for fun, they don’t claim to have powers).
And like Atheist said, breaking the laws of physics is breaking the laws of physics. If you can move a pencil with your mind, why not put on a cape and some tights and go fight crime instead of sitting in your room moving pencils around?

Also, we do use all of our brains. Our brains aren’t just for thinking after all, they also regulate all of our bodily functions and unconscious processes. I doubt that there is some yet unlocked part of our brain that can move pencils through the power of the mind, we’d know about it by now. The 10% of our brain myth is really more of an analogy on how people think, rather than a medical fact.

I believe it is possible. Ater all, i believe in ghosts, so why not?

I really hope that does not get developed… One malfunction can make it a murder machine! :help:

I think that telekinesis is not possible at will, but is possible in some terms. The process is probably very delicate, and concentrating even a little bit too hard screws it up. I’ve had “experiences” with it, but I’m not sure if it’s truly telekinesis or pure coincidence. Here’s some examples:

  • A few years ago, one kid was making fun of my hair (I think it was because he was insecure about his own…). A little while later, I saw him walking down the hallway, and I made a mental wish “I hope he loses his balance…” A moment later, he stepped on his own shoelace and tripped into a girl who was holding a flower pot made in art class.

  • Another time, during a boring English lesson, I decided to step out for a drink of water. As I passed the water fountain, I noticed some guy breaking into a locker. He didn’t see me, but I just stood by the fountain, just staring. Right when he propped the locker open, various shelves and pencil boxes came spilling out and made quite a racket. He got caught.

Also, during a World History class, one girl kept bragging about how she didn’t need braces and about three-quarters of the class did. She had a stack of books on her desk, and I tried “mentally wishing” like I had that other time. It could have worked, except she stuffed the books under her desk. She got caught chewing gum during class later… not sure if that has something to do with it though.

I know this is evidence is like “meh… don’t believe it…” and I’m not sure I do either. I just thought it was interesting :smile:

I do believe that it is real and possible after all I have seen and done it myself. I don’t care if anyone believes me or not all that matters is what I see myself doing and that’s enough for me. So far I have only been able to rotate the psi wheel for about a minute counter clockwise, clockwise seems to be more difficult to do. hopefully ill move up to toothpicks sometime. If you want to learn how to do it I recommend and read everything they have to say about it. People who don’t think its possible don’t even try. A big obstacle to success in this area is learning to accept the fact that it is possible. Also you need a lot of patience because it can take a while before you see any results. Good luck!

As far as the laws of physics go, those laws are created to outline things that we humans understand. I believe the whole topic of psi is something that is only beginning to be uncovered by humans and only a hand full at that. There are really no permanent laws in science, just temporary sets of rules that are broken when new discoveries are found

Heres a little something to think about. People say that Telekinesis is impossible because of the laws of physics. Well, rules were made to be broken, right? And laws are simply rules governing the way of life. So if rules were made to be broken, then so were laws, and so were the laws of physics.

Yes but those people tend to forget the laws of quantum physics, which are rather curious. :wink:

This isn’t true, it’s actually a myth that caught on. As far as I know every part of the brain has a known use and function. According to wikipedia, it’s a misconception most likely arose from a misunderstanding (or misrepresentation in an advertisement) of neurological research in the late 1800s or early 1900s when researchers discovered that only about 10% of the neurons in the brain are firing at any given time. If all your neurons were to fire at once, it would cause a seizure.

Psychics still use this claim to support their views that the remaining 90% of our brain can be used for things like telekenesis… which is false, since we use all of our brain.

But in my oppinion… I don’t think it’s possible. In this day and age, with cameras everywhere… why is there no proof? It takes one person to come forward to prove it. Since no one has… I think that’s proof enough that it isn’t possible. But maybe some day if our brains are advanced enough it could be possible!

Of course not. That’s just something rebellious people say because they’re trying to be a smart-a*s. Rules were made to be followed, so that society can be structured and functional without utter chaos taking over.

But in my oppinion… I don’t think it’s possible. In this day and age, with cameras everywhere… why is there no proof? It takes one person to come forward to prove it. Since no one has… I think that’s proof enough that it isn’t possible. But maybe some day if our brains are advanced enough it could be possible!

your right there are cameras but if you saw it on a camera there is no way to be able to tell if the person is acually doing it or not. search you tube and you can find a couple vidoes of the psi wheel and also on psipog they have a multi media section with a couple videos that you can watch. keep in mind most videos are used as training tools and not really to prove it to the skeptics.

but it’s just as easy to do it in a controlled environment with scientists and cameras etc :smile:

Well, they are not really rules. They are observations trying to model the universe. The physical model, both macro and micro get thrown a curve ball all the time.

The laws of the universe cannot be broken, that is why they are laws. However, what we think are the laws are not.

New evidence is found, and we jury rig our model so it fits.

You can see this in mathematics. You start out with positive numbers, but then somebody tries to subtract a larger number from a smaller, then you have a new model called Integers (negative and positive). This is fine for a while until someone like Pythagoras and sees that you can have fractions… a/b. But then he discovers that the issoceles triangle with 2 sides of length one produces a hypotenuse that cannot be expressed in the form of a/b. (He incidentally called this an evil number because he could not explain it)… so we humans then invent the real number system… which is also called the “irrational” numbers (because they cannot be expressed with the then old model) (SQROOT(2) is an irrational).
After that we invented the complex system… mostly to solve some odd things surrounding the number “e” that showed that you could prove 1 = -1. This branch of mathematics was then called “imaginary”… and it is a basic model of electrical engineering. And now we have Chaos Theory… which to date is the best model we have for modeling nature. So Chaos, itself may indeed take over :content:

Anyway. Who knows what the universe’s laws really are? We see things, and then try to incorporate them in our model. Sometimes the model limits our perception of reality (even language is a model, of sorts)… and sometimes our model expands our perception.

We seem to be at a time when personal models start to diverge from the BIG sociatal model (be it science, religion, or whatever).

So is psychokinesis possible? I believe so. The the act of moving my hand tells me this… I am not sure where I reside… I am pretty sure it is not my body, as LD has shown me… There is one science and philosphy have not answered… where is consciouness?

Your consciousness is likely in your brain, just like my consciousness is in mine. LDs and ‘OBEs’ and even NDEs are still experienced by the mind within the brain after all…besides if consciousness were somewhere else, why would we need such a complex brain?

Also, I’d like to encourage anyone who claims to be able to perform psychokinesis to take James Randi’s million dollar challenge.

Are you sure? Where in your brain is it?
Prove to us that your consciousness is in your brain. :smile:

And if you cannot prove that it exists in a lab, does that mean it does not exist?

Scientists have been looking for it for a very long time (Pribram, comes to mind…)We speculate it is in ourheads (as that is where a great density of neurons are; but too the spinal cord has a good density of them), but can you say where consciousness exists physically? We are talking physics here, right? :tongue:

Greeks thought it was in their heart. They could not figure out what the brain was for.

(can you imagine that! It is kinda fun to try… but since we believe it exists soley in our brain, it is hard to imagine how they thought like that :wink:

If you were able to do so, it would not be paranormal… but explainable to science and thus not applicable to the challenge. :eh:

(But on a side note, did you see how nervous Randi was when those people who claimed water memory almost had conclusive proof? Made me think he did not really have, or want to give up the money… if he had too, of course)

Consciousness obviously exists somewhere (it has to exist somewhere, right?), and since we detect activities in different parts of the brain when we think of different things, remember different things and move different body parts, and have no other testable source for where consciousness could be coming from, what reason do we even have to assume that consciousness comes from somewhere other than the brain?

Also the Egyptians; when they mummified people, they just threw the brain out because they didn’t think it did anything :content:
…but hey, the Ancient Greeks believed a lot of crazy things, like there only being four elements, or that the moon and sun were carried through the skies on a chariot :tongue:

No, if it could be tested and thus proven to be real, then it doesn’t matter if it’s ‘paranormal’ or not (paranormal is a silly word).
If I can move a pencil with my mind, then it is observable and falsifiable, so whether or not it is ‘paranormal’ doesn’t matter, it is applicable to the challenge because it’s something that can be ‘measured’. Once again, if someone can do it, then do it and prove us skeptics wrong :wink:

I’m not familiar with ‘water memory’…got anything I can read about it? :smile:
On another side note, I think Randi does have the money, he’s provided the financial statements to show this on live television. Besides, this guy isn’t about cheating or fooling people, he was one of the first magicians to not make the claim that he actually had magical powers…he often assured people that he was accomplishing his effects by logical means.

Did not mean to imply that :smile:
Saw the water memory experiment with him on a discovery station documentary. Perhaps it was the tv production, but Randi did look nervous. :cool:
I will look for a reference for you.

Of course this is a can of worms. :smile: But what is consciousness? Do individual cells have consciousness? How about groups of things? Ants seem very non-evolved indivudually, but as a colony they demonstrate a high level of what we could consider intelligence. :confused:

I recall reading a medical study of a heart transplant patient. This guy was a clasical musician who had a great distain for other types of music. Upon recieving a new heart, he suddenly aquired a taste for fried chicken and rap/hip-hop.
It turned out the that the doner loved both of these things.
I will try to turn up the actual example. But I have read alot of such cases where the other’s memory somehow mysteriously emerges in the transplant patient.

Most words are. :happy:
Para: aside from, besides, alongside, beyond
Normal: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle

How else would you describe it? Anything that the current model cannot account for would be considered abnormal.

Very true. But the same is true of us. The metaphors are different, but we still try to jam the universe so it fits into our model. Not a hundred years ago, we believed in ether. At the turn of the century 1899, the Belguim patent officed closed it doors because it believed everything had been discovered and its services were no longer needed.
So now, we believe in the big bang… we like that metaphor… seems spectacular spectacular!

I am a skeptic. I have no judgement either way. :wink:
If it is proven great. If it is proven impossible great. Interesting none the less.

Again, this is normalizing the paranormal. :wink:
So if psychokinesis is a reality… and you can prove it, it no longer is outside the normal… Perhaps he means, anyone bringing an event out of the paranormal into the permanently observable…
Just a joke here from me. I think it is funny, logically. But then again I am weird. :eh:

I hope so. In the present, probably.