Reality Checks or Lucidity Checks?

Quest for Lucidity General Lucidness
1

Through reading Ryan Hurd’s “Lucid Immersion,” I came across the idea of content-based versus form-based reality checks.

In a nutshell, a content-based RC relies on testing objects or conditions within the dream environment. For instance, testing whether text is stable, or if you’re able to defy gravity.

A form-based RC relies on testing your thought processes. For instance, testing your memory by trying to remember how you came to be where you are. Or, testing your mathematical ability.

Both kinds of reality checks are flawed because you might have a dream with stable text or “dream physics” which prevent easy flying. Similarly, you might be quite able to remember where you’ve been (through actual memory or a false memory-type of rationalizing), and you might be capable of complex math because you’re naturally gifted at math.

In my experience, I’ve noticed that I’m dreaming more often through identifying strange content. Sometimes I’ve become lucid by noticing strangeness within my awareness–like I notice that I’m drunk with no memory of having had a drink.

I don’t know quite what to make now of the merits of content- versus form-based RCs, but the question has made me ask myself (while thinking about and using the form-based RCs) if what I’m testing is “reality” or my lucidity.

Lucidity has certain features. Generally, I’d say, lucidity is made up of a working memory, of the ability to direct your attention, and the ability to reason correctly. If you’re non-lucid, you don’t usually remember the conditions of your waking life, your attention is being carrot-and-sticked by your subconcious, and you rationalize poorly rather than reason correctly about events.

I can see that form-based RCs are focused on increasing lucidity by getting you to focus on your mental state, but…are they any more successful than content-based RCs? What have been your experiences?

Can you imagine a RC strategy that moves from content to form in a way that would be more likely to trigger lucidity?

2

To be honest I think that RC is a nothing more then a probability as long as we are not trained to RC normal things. For example, you are in your living room and you see your TV and it’s black, you don’t usually question that because it’s normal for you but if you see pink TV then you will maybe question that.

You see, but if you were trained to question “normal” things which is also RC then becoming lucid would be a lot easier job. And that’s possible but if we train our mnemonic memory. Because even “normal” things should be questioned because they are maybe not normal…

3

You don’t have to rely on the mental RCs which require reasoning and memory. We all know that varies from dream to dream.

Rather use the physical ones, like pinching your nose (if you can breathe, you’re lucid), finger through palm etc. Doing them while really questioning reality trains you to know you’re lucid the instant one of them works.

4

I think a wonderful question is why does reasoning and memory vary from dream to dream? There’s many answers probably–not the least of them being that they vary for the same reason that they vary while we’re awake and physically focused.

I have used “form-based RCs” to become more lucid in a dream. For example, I once tried the “Twin Position” method from a Carlos Castaneda book. The techinque involves remembering, or sensing, what position your body is sleeping in and then mimicking the position in the dream to “fall asleep” and change dreams into a brighter dream. When I tried it, I didn’t change dreams but the dream got fives times more solid and bright. My mind seemed sharpened. Central to this technique is a very specific accessing of memory.

(*Note: I wouldn’t call myself a fan of the Castaneda books, but the techniques suggested in teh books seem to work well for me.)

If attention, reasoning and memory are somewhat impaired in a lucid dream because of brain physiology–because those parts of our brain are “shut down”–is it possible to activate them without waking ourselves up? By attempts to reason, remember, and concentrate?

I assume that this is what happens, at the very least, in a DILD: that there’s a physical change in the brain leading to a recoherence of consciousness. I know recent studies have zeroed in on the activity in the prefrontal cortex associated with lucid dreaming.

Anyway, I’ve often gotten lucid by questioning reality, and by testing it (focusing on the strange or unlikely content). For the most part, I never actually gain lucidity by completing these tests. I usually just know it’s a dream as I encounter something strange, or I suspect it’s a dream and observation either leads me to lucidity or it doesn’t (because I rationalize away the weirdness).

Only one thing, I think, can counteract the tendency to rationalize away strangeness in a dream: tenacious investigation based in the disbelief of our waking ego. If that’s true, then all lucidity, the movitation behind every reality check, is the dim activation of reason. So there’s got be a minimum value of it in every lucid dream. Increasing it may depend on physical conditions–like tiredness level, level of sleep, maybe blood sugar, etc.

dB_FTS: What sort of practice do you suggest for questioning the normal more often?

5

I don’t do reality checks, simply because I do not trust them, it is not the reality checks, but our awareness that dictates de possibility of becoming lucid. Usually we notice something strange in a dream, only then to perform a reality check, just to give a final “Ok, you’re dreaming”, but it is not the reality check itself that’s responsible for the lucidity. Sometimes, after we reality check, we become lucid, but that’s only because we spontaneuosly look for signs of a dream, mostly everything that happens in a dream is impossible to happen in real life, but we aren’t even bothered by that, so why would a reality check work? It’s the checking of awareness that does.

6

There is one very tricky thing about RC’s that bothers me. I’m still not experienced enough to try that, to prove that to myself but one day I will. My theory is that RC’s work in a dream JUST BECAUSE we think about them in that way.

We were told and learned that looking at our hands in the dream should trigger lucidity because they look different from waking life, but why is that? Is it because that’s actually how things work in a dream or is it because we thought about hands looking different in a dream and as lucid dreamers we have possibility to actually achieve that. What if we think about hands in the normal way, how they look in WL, would they look the same?

I think they would. Why? Because there are dreamers that can read withing the lucid dream, and usually dreamers say that you can’t read within the dream. What if those who can didn’t accept that as absolute truth and actually achieve this. The same is with every single one RC. They will work within the dream only if you believe that they will, at the end they work as everything within lucid dream, if you believe it works then it will work.

Honestly, I don’t know. I usually do RC like: Ok, here are doors. If I’m in a dream behind this doors needs to be ______.

  • even though that doesn’t work always inside the dream which means it can fail as RC in WL too, I do it, because It should “make” some kind of difference withing the dream or imperfection…

Like I said, RC’ing is tricky, it’s mostly how you approach to this topic. Because withing the dream it’s all about expectation and believe at the end…

7

I think that flying is a smart example of what you’re talking about here. Does all trouble with flying in a dream stem from the dreamer’s thoughts and beliefs? Are we able to fly only because we think we can? Do we fail to fly only because we think we can’t?

The ability to fly, for me, is usually a reliable RC because if I can float even a little I can conclude that I’m flying. I can’t fly in WL. However, even though I’ve flown hundreds of times in LDs–I did it even when I was a kid–I still run into trouble? Why? Is it because I don’t “believe enough”? Because, suddenly, despite all my experience with flying and using different techniques, that I “think” I can’t do it?

I don’t think so.

I think, rather, that the conditions of a dream–like simulated gravity–can vary independently of the dreamer’s thoughts, feelings, and beliefs. Probably there’s a physiological component to this effect. Maybe the “laws of physics” in dreams are more, or less, breakable depending on the level of sleep, whether you’re in REM, etc. The effect–if what I’m surmising is real–might have a nonphysical explanation too.

So what I’m saying is: I’ve had certain RCs backfire on me even when, as far as I can tell, I totally believe in them and have high confidence in them. Having flown in hundreds of dreams, why should I doubt that I can fly when I know well that I’m dreaming?

Also, for the record, I’ve been able to read text well in dreams before. I’ve also seen it shift. I’ve encountered text that is nonsense, half-sensible, and text that is as clear as can be. This, too, might depend on the level of activity in the brain–not on the dream ego’s thoughts and beliefs per se. And it may be that “believing” you can read actually activates the portions of the physical brain used for reading. Who knows.

I think the pinched nose RC is intriguing (I’ve never used it before) but obviously it wouldn’t work if you didn’t have a nose or lungs in a dream (which is very possible).

Some of Ed Kellogg’s lucid dream tests are mind-blowing. For instance, he conducted a test to determine whether he saw with two eyes or not in a dream (using a simple optical test) and concluded that he did! Why do we see with “two eyes” in a dream?! Probably because we’re used to seeing with two eyes. Can we change this? Apparently we can. Dreamers talk all the time about being a point of consciousness, having 360 vision, having awareness of two perspectives, etc.

My gut says that a lot of this is mere belief, but that some of it isn’t. I’ve often come to the “end” of dream zones (as if the dream were happening in some great bubble) when I certainly wasn’t expecting there to be any end at all. I’ve discovered “stars” and “moons” to be like set pieces when I wanted and expected to fly up to a real star or moon. Sometimes light switches work and sometimes they don’t in a dream.

8

Yeah it’s a lot about believe or expectation, if not everything.

I mean it’s scientifically proved that dreams are happening in our brain so to speak, actually they get same EEG brain scans every time when we dream and they called that dreaming. But they can’t say 100% that we were dreaming, they can only say that our brain was emitting this specific brain waves and that’s it.

What about people that say they had OBE and they believe that this is happening outside our brain and body, or those that believe that OBE and LD are the same just another level of consciousness? Could they be wrong? What if they are right? And if we are looking at this with an open mind then they could be. As WE are linked to our physical body then it could be that if we shift our consciousness out of the body into another plane some kind of indication should be seen, something like changed brain waves, maybe?!

They are all hypothesis. My believe until recent was:

  1. LD/NLD is something that is happening in our brain due to brain recovery, bla bla bla.

  2. OBE - out of body experience. I thought that WE leave our body and we are in this physical reality just out of physical body, that our consciousness which is pure energy become free…

  3. AP - astral projection - same as OBE but only into another plane of existence.

Now, after some research I’m not so sure, it makes sense that all 3 could be the same thing only thing is how we expect things to be and how we at the end perceive the result and experience…

9

I thought I’d throw in that it’s been proven that dreams happen outside of REM sleep. There’s a deep lay association between REM and dreams, but we actually have non-REM dreams. Also, in studies of meditators, test subjects have been able to signal that they’re consciously aware from all wave states–theta and delta included.

I do think that our physiology has a significant effect on normal dreams, lucid dreams, and out of body states. Yet that doesn’t mean that every facet of a dream can be physiologically reduced.

If the “Spiritual Hypothesis” is true, and consciousness is somehow–at least partially–independent of the physical body, there’s still no reason for us to think that our spiritual experiences would be free of physical influence. On the contrary, this viewpoint admits the possibility that physiology may have much to do with our experiences of nonphysicality.

And, yeah, I think LDs and OBEs are on the same spectrum of experience, but I don’t ordinarily lump them together. For one, the physical sensations leading up to and during the experiences are remarkably different. And, in my experience, the sensations during the experiences themselves are different as well. There are areas of overlap, with LD types like WILD, but you can have an LD and never experience sleep paralysis, vibrations, noises like rushing, dual awareness, etc. Plus, many people have had OBEs from a bodily waking state.

Of course, I’ve met a few people who can view and enter dream imagery from a waking state–or at least a light trance while they’re sitting down. From a deeper trance, lying down, I’ve done this myself. It did feel like leaving my body. I felt literally sucked, dramatically and fast, into the imagery that formed in my mind’s eye. It felt like “I” was sucked right out of my body and into the imagery–into “another place.” And then I’ve had much gentler WILDs where it’s like this: I’m drifting off to sleep, still aware, and then some faint gray imagery forms and after a few seconds I feel immersed in it. When that happens, it doesn’t feel like leaving my body–it feels like I’ve switched my awareness from my physical body to my mind alone.

It’s perplexing! As Ed Kellogg points out it gets really confusing when people are experienced in both LDs and OBEs because they begin to dream about OBEs! I’ve had this happen and I once included these experiences among my OBEs, but I don’t anymore since, really, they amount to false lucidity. That is, in these experience I think I’m awake, but I’m not. They’re still more lucid than normal dreams, but not really as lucid as regular LDs and OBEs. Usually these dream-OBEs are obvious afterwards (for me, anyway) because it’s ridiculously easy to get out of your body.

I usually argue from the position that, regardless of what can objectively be shown about OBEs/APs/LDs, that they are psychologically real. They are experiences of consciousness that affect us intellectually, emotionally, and even physically. Actually, I think it’s quite harmful to be a regular LDer and to believe that the experience “aren’t real.” If you kill or rape a projection of your subconscious, you’re metaphorically killing or raping yourself. I think it’s quite possible to develop some PTSD symptoms from recurring lucid nightmares. If you ignore or simply slay monsters in your LDs, you could ignoring a part of yourself with important information.

Finally, back to the topic of reality checks, I’ve found that LDs and OBEs have different experiential qualities that can help me distinguish “which reality I’m in.” Usually, with OBEs, there’s no sense of gravity. I’m always floating. Walking is awkward. I’m also usually semi-transparent. And while perception seems to be more or less automatic within a DILD, and quite strong in a WILD, with my OBEs it often needs to be strengthened or simply improves as I distance myself from my body. (Of course, none of these hard and fast, though.)

10

I’m not experienced enough to discuss this experiences from trance, even though I would like to explore that. I think that NREM dreams have a lot to do with this trance or pre-state so to speak, but like I said, I’m not experienced enough to actually discuss that.

You have to be very aware to experience this kind of state or to actually notice dreams from NREM sleep. I’m still not on this level of awareness so I can’t say that I remember dreams from NREM so I rely on REM sleep.

Also OBE’s are something that is completely new to me, I’ve had only one I believe and maybe it wasn’t… Who knows…

Good discussion though, I’m glad we had it! :content:

11

REM dreams are just like real life where you’re standing in a 3D environment. NREM is much like a thought dream, which can easily be compared to daydreaming or deep thinking. This is what I collect from my experiences.

Concerning the reality checks, I usually just do the nose RC when something strange happens, when I do or say something strange, or when someone around me is acting strangely. This works 95% of the time, if it doesn’t it’s usually because I’m not really paying attention to it. It’s like I feel the air going through my nose but I just rationalize that I’m not closing it hard enough or something. I’ve only had one time where the nose RC didn’t work while I was concentrating on it which was really strange.

The thought processes in dreams are quite interesting. My idea is that your brain always suggests things (IWL and in the dream) and your conscious will decide whether to act on it or not. So it’s not you (the conscious) who is giving suggestions, you’re just deciding what or what not to do.

Here’s an example: You’re hungry, your brain gives the impulse to eat. You (the conscious) will decide whether to eat or not, like if you’re on a diet you will say no to the impulse.

Using this hypothesis, I can explain the way you act in NDs. When recalling an ND, you may feel like you had no control over your actions and you were doing everything instinctively. I’ve done many things in normal dreams which I would have never done in real life, like drinking alcohol or smoking. But when you’re in an LD, you realize that you’re dreaming and your conscious is up and running. You can always stray off the path of the dream and explore wherever else you want to.

Lets compare a normal dream scenario and a lucid one.

ND: You’re walking along the path and you see a fork in the road. The store you needed to go is on your right, so you go on the path to the right.
LD: You’re walking along the path and you see a fork in the road. You realize that you are dreaming, and decide to not go to the store since there is no point and just fly around.

In the lucid dream, you actually had a choice to do something else, ie stray off the path of the dream. The state of mind in a normal dream is very close minded, and you don’t have much choice. This is why you’re prone to doing strange things in dreams. It’s like your thought processes in a normal dream are on autopilot, with no one at the wheel.