taking control by creating fake memory

hi all,

i’ve searched for a topic like this, but i didn’t find one.
perhaps it would be nice, if there was a gathering topic like “how to take control of your ld”.
i only found a few topics, where someone asked how to control it… and often there were answers like “dont try it, do it or don’t do it” etc.
but i think that’s not the only advice anyone can give. there are different methods, how to construct or to do anything, especially things which you’re normally having trouble with.
hence it would be nice if there was a gathering topic about “controlling methods”

anyway i will show you “another” method for controlling your LD (it has to be tested if it works well. also i don’t know if this method is suggested anywhere, but i didn’t find it until now). once i experienced intuitively something, that made me think of the following idea. but first my experience:
first of all, i became lucid. i often had trouble controlling the dream scenareo, especially in avoiding to wake up or to let the scene drifting away. so i wanted to let the dream to go on. i was a little bit frustrated, that my ld’s were so often very short and boring and that i have had so less control within it.
so, spontaneously i acquired the idea, “remembering” a lucid dream, in wich everything has happened well. i knew, this memory was a fake, because i myself made this fake memory. but i liked it. so i “remembered” more and more scenes of my “dream”. i let the story growing without my own interference. the only thing i managed was that the dream took a long time, that i stood all the time lucid and that it wasn’t boring etc. it was a nice dream and it worked well. particularly the scenes became more and more vivid and real.

so after this experience i thought about that way constructing things and i made a suggestion for more control within a lucid dream like that…
the main thing with this method is to visualize not happening things right now or in future or just as wishes, but visualizing “faked” memories. so if you have trouble in visualizing anything, e.g. you can’t fly around, the advantage of this method is, you just fancy that you already did it. and then you visualize how you did it and perhaps the scene will become more vivid by and by.
so the lucid moment is, that you stay as the one remembering all the things you just see. and another part of you is getting involved by the scene. the longer you “recall” your false memorys, the more they become to reality and you experience them right now “as if” it were no memory (this is, i think, because past and future don’t exist in a special way: everything is right now. and so past and future events are experienced (and constructed) only in the present.) while dreaming, the advantage is, memories are becoming faster reality than in waking. because you can better focus on it and not so much is interruping you. when you’re fancying anthing in your dream a long time, it becomes more and more real. so with memories.
so it’s like you were an actor and you’re playing a dream scene, and also you’re the almighty regisseur who’s telling everyone what to do etc. but this time, you’re playing as if everything already happend before. (and i think, in a special way, like i already said, everything happend “before” - just like everything will happen in the future (also the past will) and just like nothing ever happens… but this is theory. i think this is a great explanation / description of my experiences about time, but you may think odd. let this be enough theory, and concentrate about the method. you may explain your experiences like you want to…)

it’s like suggestion. with no words like “i will” or “i want” or “i do”, but with “i have done” etc. perhaps, for some, this way of suggestion would be easier, because the past you fency is more definite than any future or willing suggestions (for me). all in all it’s just a language trick. but your thinking depends on your language and your reality depends on your thinking.

perhaps you think about other language tricks in suggesting/ thinking/ taking control, just like the often suggested method: “do it” (right now), or like visualizing a future event or like anything else? let me know if you have another ideas or preferences.
and let me know if my suggested thinking-method helps you. i also would like it if you point out problems with my method or if you have any better proposals etc.
you know… criticize this all :smile:

so, in the end, let me sum up with this: figure out, how you think about the most definite things. and so you have to realize your will. with a thinking, that is most certain.

ps: i already said, my english isn’t very well, so i apologize.
and if you can, please show me my mistakes, especially in grammar and phrasing… because i really want to learn it…and do you want to read this mistakes over and over again? i thik it would be also annoying to you :happy:

I too found this out intuitively also as a child. Infact, the only time I purposely induced lucid dreams as a child was with a very similar method to yours. When I was little, I used to tell myself a story as I went to sleep and as I progressed through the story I eventually found myself lucid in the story. Essentially, both your technique and mine are alternatives to the normal VILD method. I have a very hard time just visualizing one object so thats probably why imagining a series events (as opposed to one object or room) is much easier for me. The thing that caught my eye in your post was that you used the term “actor” because this is exactly how I viewed myself each time I successfully used VILD.


so do you still use this method?
i am not fully clear about how you’re viewing yourself as an actor. did / do you tell yourself the storys as if they were memorys?

thanks for the link to vild. i’ll take a look at it.

To answer your question, no I do not use this method any longer mainly because I just recently started practicing lucid dreaming seriously again. Another reason why I don’t use it that often is because VILD is only a little bit more effective than WILD for me. I think the only reason I respond better to VILD as opposed to WILD is because I am a control freak so if I know what dream I am going to take on, I feel more comfortable. With WILD you kind of get thrown into a natural dream. The way I would play an actor is I would narrate the story like, “Once upon a time, in a city in California, there was a boy named The Science of Lucidity.” Anyways, as I would tell myself the story I would visualize myself actually participating in the story. After about 5 minutes into the story I would be in the dream.

Isn’t this the same as the VILD method described with other words? a slightly less “scientific” approach, but basically the same.

oh, okay, as i read about vild, i realize you didn’t understand fully what i meant…

the technique i described is no incubation technique for lucidity! it’s a visualisation technique, it should help you controlling/creating your dream as you wish, while you are already lucid!
of course, you can combine this with any incubaction technique, as wild, vild, dild… but that was not the point i wanted to describe.

the main issue is, once you are lucid, you don’t start moving, doing things and visualize them. but you tell yourself a story about what you “did” in your lucid dream. so after a while your own created memorys will become reality. and the advantage about this should be, that you can create any memory you want to - so in the end there should be no more problems visualizing or doing or being… anything in your ld…
hope you understand now, what’s the main point about my posting… ?


Ahh I see. Not to knock your fidnings but if you are saying what I think you are saying, I am seeing this as just a complicated way to do something that is relatively simple. If you are talking about controlling dream scenario once lucid, most can do that easily. You are after all, god of your own dreams. What it appears you have found is simply an alternative to “expect someone around the corner” or “press a button to make event-X happen”. For me personally, controlling my lucid dream takes barely any visualization, I can just believe something will happen and it will happen. Sometimes there are mental blocks but I am forced to realized, its just my own personal mental block that I can get rid of or find a simple way around it.

thats fine :smile:
but i have had often trouble controlling the scenario, too much blockades. and i thought some people else do have. i often heared about such problems…

When you narrate your story once lucid, I noticed you are telling yourself the story in past tense. It would seem to be more effective if you told the story in present tense so the dream world would be affected real time.

Lots of mental exercises stress that present tense is pretty important, from describing your dreams as you write them in the dream journal, to image streaming and brainstorming.

hmm yes that’s true, but i never read about past tense suggestions.
i always read, that present would be better than future - i would agree in this point,

but i see another advantage in past tense compared to futer tense…
it’s that suggestion, that you’re no longer determinated by special experiences that you made or never made. because very often we life in that time-model. we always compare our wishes and plans with experiences and so we justice about how probable it would be that they come to reality. so the past is the ruler, in the past there are the causes for all that’s happening now and for all that would happen in future.

perhaps, present suggestions are better than past suggestions. but i think it’s harder too. because you have to free yourself from any time-model so you musn’t think about what will happen and also not about what ever happened. but i think we often do this automatically, even if we do not notice. if we didn’t think of any time, i don’t know if we could ever do anything (because there would be no action anymore, action is time-based… ) and i don’t know if we could see anything (we would’nt have any associations from the past about the objects, so we wouldn’t even know what’s their names and how they “normally” behave)…

Hi rosniin,

It’s an interesting idea. But if I understand well, you just remember while lucid a fake LD, so you have memories of a dream in which you controlled anything, but you don’t really have control over your present LD?

hi, thats right - but as i think and as i experienced, you also have control over your present ld, because the past becomes present when you think of it a while…
you get into your “memories”