The BIG DreamMaker topic

Quest for Lucidity
60

First of all, hello Bruce and welcome to the forum, nice to have you here! I’d like to put my ideas on your mask here based on what I heared so far, perhaps it might be useful to you.

Ok, so this is a nice test. 50% of subjects got at least one LD during 2 weeks! But according to me (and probably many others here on the forum), if you would put together another group of these students, who dont know anything about LDing, and you would teach them certain well known methods to induce LD’s (like WBTB + MILD, which works for a lot of starters very quickly!), my bet is that you could get at least the same result. Granted, one would have to put real effort into it, but this effort would be well worth the result and would not cost anyone 400 dollar (if that is really the price, I would never spend such a huge amount on such a device).

My conclusion sofar would be (and I dont want to offend you personally, this is aimed purely at the product and price), that your tool is a nice gadget for rich people who are too lazy to invest serious effort into learning to expand their nightly endeavours, or for those who wish to try and test a gadget besides their current induction techniques, that might (or might not) help them to gain lucidity and are willing to pay big time for it. Also it might be helpful for people who lack the time to LD seriously, perhaps fot those with a bizzy job schedule and not a lot of sleep. I could see how this could be useful to such people if you were to keep working on the dream maker to make it even more succesful.

-Xetrov.

61

I cant say I tested the product enough, but when I was having a lucid on my own, there were no triggers, lights or alarm. I dont think facial twitching, and eye flutters(opening/closing) are reliable. Why only one sensor. Why not 2 one for each eye, where is the logic in that. I agree in this product was not tested enough. I like the business that bruce is in, I think he’s doing a great job. This is in my opion but I think Bruce saw a great opportunity to get into this Lucid market since the Nova Dreamer is around 600+. But the product was rushed (even by the consumer) because everyone wanted one.

I think everyone has to find out what works for them. I’ve had better luck using my Luma 10 at 4 am and playing a lucid induction CD, but that just works for me!

My 2 cents
phoen+++

62

I’d definately be willing to give something like this a try. I used to want a Nova Dreamer but they have since become so scarce and expensive that I’ve abandonded that idea altogether.
Like I said I’d gladly try this and report my results. I’m the kinda guy who’s dreams frequently are influenced by outside sensory input, so I have a feeling that this’d work well for me. As for the price, hey, I can always sell it if it doesn’t work. At least I’ll have tried it.

63

I think that was a sarcastic and exaggerated comment in an effort to justify your high price! No one here wants you to give the thing away for free but, you make an obscene profit on each sale. You know it and so do we. Like someone said, the technology for the dream maker is cheap and people could build one for $20.00 if they have even minor knowledge in electronics. So how do you justify $400.00 per unit.(I also understand that your price is going up to $1000.00 after this trial release).

64

Oh, well, then I will OBVIOUSLY NEVER EVER EVER BUY SOMETHING THAT I CAN MAKE MYSELF FOR FREE AND/OR BUY FOR 39 BUCKS FOR 1000 DOLLARS…

Great job losing a purchase from me and undoubtedly thousands of others

65

squakMix

See thistopic I explain how you can just use your own creativity to get a nova dreamer effect. No technical skills required!

66

Yea, I saw it and linked to it in this thread :razz:

67

Isn’t that the ‘Pro’ model going up in price?

68

I wouldnt consider a dream maker until they put 2 sensors, one for each eye to start. One sensor absolutly makes no sense! For a basic test I put the mask on, kept my eyes closed then moved them around inside - no trigger what so ever!

I have more luck playing my CD looping from 3-6 AM. I usually hear it in my dreams and go lucid no problems and that was free!

phoen+
:peek:

69

Didn’t the NovaDreamer have one eye-movement sensor? (I could be confusing it with a “homebuilt” design)?

Anyways, I would think that one is enough (as both eyes move together). Two sensors might – or might not – improve such devices performance.

Does anyone have more specific info?

70

my problem right now is a trust issue…

i don’t think the mask EVER had electromyography capabilities, AT BEST it was electrodermal (GSR) or nothing at all… So the fact they suddenly “removed it” cause it wasn’t working is all a load of crap… Cause if you WOULD remove it, you’d make it cheaper (since it has one less important feature)… which didn’t happen.

I’m still curious as to how the sensors were placed and the data recorded and if this question would be answered I’d probably give the product some slack.

but given the fact he probably lied about it, i don’t see why ANYONE should trust him or any of his products.

71

I did some checking.
The Nova Dreamer was $275 (American) and this Dream Maker is $340.
I’d try it for sure, but if it were the same price as the Nova Dreamer, that would be a real plus.

72

I don’t blame you. Read the original DreamMaker - the new novadreamerthread.

It seems there have been problems with people getting their Dreammaker and the developer ignores inquiries and complaints.

Also has a bad rep with thebetter business Bureau.

73

Wow, after reading that stuff, I think I’ll stay away from this perticular product.
Maybe a REM Dreamer would be more worth looking at.

74

Those are just the handful of people who bothered to complain. Where there is smoke there is usually fire.

I do not know about the rem dreamer. I have not heard any feed back about it in some time.

Just remember that these devices don’t magically give you lucid dreams. You still have to practice. Furthermore, you don’t need these devices at all to lucid dream.

75

I realize I don’t need a device like this, but I’d love to try one out. :smile:
The remdreamer is $200 Canadian, about $160 American I suppose, much less than the $340 American Dreammaker and certainly wayyyyy less than the discontinued NovaDreamer, which is upwards of $600 American. :neutral:
I think if I choose to spend my money ona device like this, I’ll make it the most inexpensive one :content:

76

DreamMaker, NovaDreamer, Bruce Gelerter, Wellness Tools

WARNING! BEWARE!
If you are considering purchasing the DreamMaker from Bruce Gelerter, Wellness Tools, please be very careful.
From my experience of owning the DreamMaker Basic for over 1 month and the customer service that I have been given by Bruce Gelerter, CEO of Wellness Tools, I can not recommend the DreamMaker Basic as a viable alternative to the Lucidity Institute’s NovaDreamer.

Vendor information:

Bruce Gelerter
Wellness Tools
(aka, dba) - Electromedical Research LLC

3107 W. Colorado Avenue #171
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80904
U.S.A.

1-877-686-8999
719-686-8999
cell phone - 719-330-8439

bruceg@wellnesstools.com – primary email
customers@wellnesstools.com
productsupport@wellnesstools.com
sales@wellnesstools.com

Since sending the following email to Bruce Gelerter stating my concerns of the DreamMaker Basic, Bruce Gerlerter has changed his webpages to reflect the issues that I had pointed out.

The main DreamMaker Basic page contained language that implied that that the DreamMaker Basic is (Quote)
“a single device that will guide you into the Alpha State which is where dreams take place. Then after “parking you” there the Dreammaker will go into REM detection. Now here is the best part - once it detects Rapid Eye Movement (REM) you will have a choice of either having a light pulse which is how the Nova Dreamer worked, or it can signal a pre-programmed audio tape or CD that is made by YOU with YOUR voice and your suggestions or affirmations.”

*** This claim has not been changed from the previous webpage on which I based my purchase. There is no reference in the owner’s manual I received to configure the DreamMaker Basic into guiding a person into the Alpha state. ***

The second part of that claim states that (the DreamMaker) (Quote)
“it can signal a pre-programmed audio tape or CD that is made by YOU with YOUR voice and your suggestions or affirmations.”

*** This is not possible with the DreamMaker Basic which I received, although in the new specifications webpage, there is an inference that this may be possible as an upgradeable option. ***

Another claim that was made in the previous webpage on which I based my purchase touted the inclusion of Electromyography (EMG) components to aid in REM detection.
The current DreamMaker Basic webpage now states that EMG is not used but there is now an (Quote)
““Automatic Gain Circuit”. This will adjust the sensitivity of the detector during the night based on how much background light there is. The less light the more sensitive and the better the accuracy.”

*** This claim of an “Automatic Gain Control” would be difficult for the layman to validate. As an electronics technician, I would like to see a schematic to verify how this is done. ***

In my opinion, the DreamMaker Basic is poorly designed, not adequately tested, rushed into production and overall, a worthless piece of crap.

This is my experience of owning the DreamMaker Basic and the customer service that I have been given by Bruce Gelerter, CEO Wellness Tools. You are strongly encouraged to seek more information before you commit $350 to this product or $500 for the pre-order DreamMaker PRO model and definitely, if you are going to pay $1000, the regular price for the DreamMaker PRO model.

After my email postings, I will be posting a comprehensive list of documented complaints against Bruce Gelerter.

If you have any questions, please contact me.

Steve Pertubal
rassle_co@sbcglobal.net

The following is a copy of the email I sent to Bruce Gelerter at bruceg@wellnesstools.com and his secondary emails on 10 April 2005

Bruce Gelerter,

You will be glad to know that I received my DreamMaker on Monday, 14 March. I suppose you will also be glad to know that you will succeed in pissing off at least another 100 people that were anxiously awaiting their pre-order special of “The next generation ‘NovaDreamer called the DreamMaker’”.

Let me first say that I am also an electronics technician, not a very good one. I couldn’t tell you the ass end of a diode, but I think I would be embarrassed to claim the DreamMaker as my design and to put my company’s name on it.

Let us review the NovaDreamer owner’s manual and operating manual to set the minimum expectations that we should expect from the DreamMaker. Let us also examine the claims that you have presented on your DreamMaker page at
wellnesstools.com/dreammaker.php

Be aware that I received a one page owner’s manual for my DreamMaker and no Operating instructions whatsoever.

  1. Lucidity cues – the NovaDreamer appears to have two LEDs and a small speaker.

*** The DreamMaker has eight LEDs and a small speaker. Now four times the Lucidity cues may seem like a good thing, but in reality, the only difference it makes is having four times the battery drain. This is a very bad thing. ***

  1. The Reality Testing Button – the NovaDreamer has the Reality Testing Button conveniently placed in the middle of the mask, prominently there in front.

*** The DreamMaker has a Reality Testing Button located at the top of the circuit board off to the side. Takes some getting used to… ***

  1.  Training Program – the NovaDreamer has the five unit program “A Course in Lucid Dreaming” and the Stephen LaBerge book “Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming”.

*** The DreamMaker has a workbook written by Kevin P. Loiselle and has the same book written by Stephen LaBerge. ***

  1.  The NovaDreamer and the DreamMaker both have fabric masks with adjustable Velcro straps.

*** (The foam eyepiece of my DreamMaker came unglued after the first use). ***

  1. THE CONTROLS

5.A. THE SLEEPING MODES – The NovaDreamer has four modes

5.A.1. Adjustable – as set by user

5.A.2. Light Sleep – Cue type 1 (both eyes simultaneously, no sound)
2 flashes per second
2 second cue
Intensity level 2

5.A.3. Medium Sleep – Cue type 1 (both eyes simultaneously, no sound)
2 flashes per second
6 second cue
Intensity level 4

5.A.4. Deep Sleep – Cue type 4 (both eyes simultaneously, with sound)
2 flashes per second
10 second cue
Intensity level 5

*** The DreamMaker has an adjustable sleeping mode only. Cue type 1 or 4 (both eyes simultaneously, with or without sound, as set by DIP (Dual In-Line Package) switch 6), 2 flashes per second, 15 second cue, Intensity level – Adjustable ***

5.B. THE CUE ADJUSTMENT – The NovaDreamer has four cue adjustments in the adjustable sleeping mode.

5.B.1. Number – selects the number of times the cue flashes or beeps (from 1 to 255)

*** The DreamMaker does not have this option (fixed 15 second cue) ***

5.B.2. Intensity – Selects among 6 levels of cue brightness and sound

*** The DreamMaker has separate dials for setting cue brightness
and sound levels. ***

5.B.3. Rate – Selects the rate at which the cue flashes and/or beeps (from 1 to 6/sec)

*** The DreamMaker does not have this option. ***

5.B.4. Type – Selects among the following types of cues:
5.B.4.a. Type 0: No Cues
5.B.4.b. Type 1: Light only, flashing in both eyes simultaneously
5.B.4.c. Type 2: Light only, alternating flashes in left and right eyes
5.B.4.d. Type 3: Sound only
5.B.4.e. Type 4: Light and sound, flashing in both eyes simultaneously
5.B.4.f. Type 5: Light and sound, alternating flashes in left and right eyes

*** The DreamMaker has Type 1 or Type 4 cues: Light flashing in both eyes simultaneously, sound on or off as set by DIP switch 6 ***

5.C. THE PERSONAL EYE MOVEMENT ADJUSTMENT MODE (9) - Mode 9 on the dial is for setting the sensitivity of the NovaDreamer. In this mode you can review the number of cues you received the last time you used the device and you can select from 6 levels of sensitivity to eye movements

*** The DreamMaker does not have a personal eye movement adjustment mode.
I WOULD CONSIDER THIS TO BE THE SECOND MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE OF THE NOVADREAMER. ***

5.D. THE DELAY– To enable you to fall asleep without being disturbed by cues triggered by the eye movements that normally occur during sleep onset, the NovaDreamer is equipped with a “delay” feature. Starting a delay prevents the NovaDreamer from giving cues for a period of time, so you can fall asleep without interruption. The NovaDreamer provides for an adjustable delay from 0 to at least 80 minutes.

*** The DreamMaker provides for a delay of 0 OR 40 minutes
(as set by DIP switch 4) ***

5.E. THE DREAMALARM – The NovaDreamer provides the DreamAlarm feature to help you develop your dream recall, which is essential for success with lucid dreaming. People are most likely to recall details of a dream if they are awakened from it. If you choose, the DreamAlarm will awaken you from your dreams, so that you may recall them clearly.
The DreamAlarm is a 42 second alarm that flashes brightly and beeps loudly to awaken you. When enabled, the DreamAlarm is activated five minutes after each cue it gives. Thus, when the DreamAlarm awakens you, you will know that five minutes ago, you received a cue from the NovaDreamer. Then, you can remember what you were just dreaming and see if you can recall seeing any incorporation of a lucidity clue in it. If you remember dreaming but not seeing a cue, this is an indication that you need a more noticeable cue.

*** The DreamMaker DOES NOT HAVE a DreamAlarm feature.
I WOULD CONSIDER THIS TO BE THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FEATURE THAT THE NOVADREAMER PROVIDES. READ THE DESCRIPTION AGAIN TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND WHY THIS WOULD BE IMPORTANT. Considering that the DreamMaker has FOUR DUAL CMOS TIMERS, I can only shake my head. ***

Now, to evaluate the claims on your webpage at wellnesstools.com/dreammaker.php

Claim #1
“Imagine if you will a single device that will guide you into the Alpha State which is where dreams take place. Then after “parking you” there the Dreammaker will go into REM detection. Now here is the best part - once it detects Rapid Eye Movement (REM) you will have a choice of either having a light pulse which is how the Nova Dreamer worked, or it can signal a pre-programmed audio tape or CD that is made by YOU with YOUR voice and your suggestions or affirmations. Interesting concept, huh? “

*** OK, Bruce, how does the DreamMaker “guide you into the Alpha State”? How does it park you there? How does it signal a pre-programmed audio tape or CD?
There are no references to the ability to do any of those things in the owner’s manual. There is a connector and an audio plug-in but no mention of how to implement these items. ***

Claim #2
“The first is just like the Nova Dreamer and is called the DreamMaker, and like I said earlier it’s reliable detection of REM is greatly improved over it’s predecessor the Nova Dreamer, here’s why. The Nova Dreamer detects REM via a sensor which bounces light off the eyelid and then filters out noise or rapid movements. This method is somewhat unreliable as you might of heard on newsgroups about the Nova Dreamer. Things like false triggers or no trigger at all. So what we did was to add another way to detect REM. It turns out that Electromyography (EMG) which measures facial tension is another good way to determine REM. By combining these two methods as we have done, increases the reliable detection of REM.”

*** Like I said before, I am an electronics technician and just looking at the circuit board, I can identify the infrared emitter and the photosensor. Would you be kind as to point out the EMG components? There is no mention of them in the owner’s manual. ***

Those are my observations after 4 weeks of owning the DreamMaker. I apologize if I have any of these facts incorrect and would appreciate the opportunity to correct any of these discrepancies. Though I suppose a decent owner’s manual, operating instructions, a tutorial or even a schematic would be too much to ask from you.

I am certain that the only reason I got this DreamMaker is because it would not function as a “PRO” model. I found a defective R19 and numerous cold solder joints

At least, I have this halfway functioning DreamMaker to show for my ignorance… other people, unfortunately, have not been so lucky, have they, Bruce?

I should have heeded the warning signs when I could not pay for my purchase with my Visa or MasterCard. Instead, I had to open a PayPal account. And now, none of your online merchant options seem to be working.

I should have searched the Google newsgroups for “Bruce Gelerter” or “wellnesstools.com” or “Electromedical Research, LLC”.

I should have checked review sites, such as badbusinessbureau.com or epinions.com to find recommendations or warnings about your business practices.

I would send this piece of crap back to you in a heartbeat, but I am certain that would be the last I ever saw of my DreamMaker or the $210.75 special price I paid for the pre-order.
And now the DreamMaker is selling for almost $350, and the “PRO” model, pre-ordering for almost $500 and retailing for almost $1000. Heaven help those who have already fallen for your deceptive advertisements. I hope they have better luck.

It would be nice to get a reply from you, but I’m not holding my breath. I now consider it my moral obligation to warn everyone about the DreamMaker, about you, and your questionable business practices.

Have a nice life.

From: Steve Pertubal

77

Bruce,
I expected to hear from you long before this, but maybe you didn’t get my previous email, so I am sending to you again in its entireity.

Bruce Gelerter,
You will be glad to know that I received my DreamMaker on Monday, 14 March. I suppose you will also be glad to know that you will succeed in pissing off at least another 100 people that were anxiously awaiting their pre-order special of “The next generation ‘NovaDreamer called the DreamMaker’”.

78

Steve,
I usually don’t respond to assholes who don’t know what they are talking about. I especially don’t like being judged. I have a lot of happy customers who are able to afford
quality products. I will be posting their testimonials shortly. If you want to judge someone you need to first try going from design to production in just 2 months and keep the assholes off your butt!!!
Bruce Gelerter - CEO
Wellness Tools

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve & Leah Pertubal [mailto:rassle_co@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:12 AM
To: sales@wellnesstools.com
Subject: DreamMaker Review (2)
Bruce,
I expected to hear from you long before this, but maybe you didn’t get my previous email, so I am sending to you again in its entireity.

79

Bruce,
Far be it from me to judge anyone. I merely stated the facts that are presented to me and tried to be civil about it. You respond by calling me an “asshole”.
Perhaps you could have spent a little more time on the design and gotten it right the first time so you would have “quality products” and “assholes” (Do you mean customers?) wouldn’t be jumping in your ■■■■.
I would have been happy to trade my DreamMaker in for something that worked and kept my comments to myself… But if that’s the way you want to play, so be it. You had your chance to do the right thing.
Steve Pertubal

From: “Bruce Gelerter” bruceg@wellnesstools.com
To: “Steve & Leah Pertubal” rassle_co@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: DreamMaker Review (2)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:52:26 -0600

Steve,
I usually don’t respond to assholes who don’t know what they are talking
about. I especially don’t like being judged. I have a lot of happy customers
who are able to afford
quality products. I will be posting their testimonials shortly. If you want
to judge someone you need to first try going from design to production in
just 2 months and keep the assholes off your butt!!!
Bruce Gelerter - CEO
Wellness Tools