the BIG MILD topic [part II]

[char99bok]

Thanks!

Well, I didn’t have a lucid dream, but I did wake up after every dream and I remember two of them very vividly. So it’s a start! I’m going to try and MILD every day for a little bit until I get the hang of it.

[renko]

sorry if this has already been asked or something but can MILD help increase dream recall? If I say to myself “I will go to sleep, I will dream, I will remember my dream, I will write down my dream in my journal when I wake up.” instead of things to get me lucid will it help me remember my dreams better? Im just starting out and I need to improve my recall.

[Skidzz]

Renko, I believe it does. When I first started out, that’s what I did. I told myself I’d wake up right after I dreamt and that I’d vividly recall the dream. It worked. First night I recalled – I dunno – 3, 4, 5… I think 5 dreams? And I woke up right after each one so I could write them down. It’s a subconcious thing. Try telling yourself you need to wake up at 6:30 and odds are you will. It works for me like that anyway. Give it a shot.

[Basilus_West]

Well… It seems that we have to recapitulate what is really MILD (the original method), before there is too much confusion on this thread.

@The Lucidity Institute FAQ

Mnemonic Induction of Lucid Dreams (MILD)
The MILD technique employs prospective memory, remembering to do something (notice you’re dreaming) in the future. Dr. LaBerge developed this technique for his doctoral dissertation and used it to achieve lucid dreaming at will. The proper time to practice MILD is after awakening from a dream, before returning to sleep.

Setup dream recall.
Set your mind to awaken from dreams and recall them. When you awaken from a dream, recall it as completely as you can.

Focus your intent.
While returning to sleep, concentrate single-mindedly on your intention to remember to recognize that you’re dreaming. Tell yourself: “Next time I’m dreaming, I will remember I’m dreaming,” repeatedly, like a mantra. Put real meaning into the words and focus on this idea alone. If you find yourself thinking about anything else, let it go and bring your mind back to your intention.

See yourself becoming lucid.
As you continue to focus on your intention to remember when you’re dreaming, imagine that you are back in the dream from which you just awakened (or another one you have had recently if you didn’t remember a dream on awakening). Imagine that this time you recognize that you are dreaming. Look for a dreamsign–something in the dream that demonstrates plainly that it is a dream. When you see it say to yourself: “I’m dreaming!” and continue your fantasy. Imagine yourself carrying out your plans for your next lucid dream. For example, if you want to fly in your lucid dream, imagine yourself flying after you come to the point in your fantasy when you become lucid.

Repeat until your intention is set.
Repeat steps 2 and 3 until either you fall asleep or are sure that your intention is set. If, while falling asleep, you find yourself thinking of anything else, repeat the procedure so that the last thing in your mind before falling asleep is your intention to remember to recognize the next time you are dreaming.

[Xetrov]

Yes indeed Basilus, what renko asked after is actually called autosuggestion, a form of self-hypnosis aimed at triggering a subconscious response. MILD as defined originally by Laberge uses this in step 2, so it is a very important aspect of it, yet not totally the same (but it’s understandably confused at times).

[renko]

Ok so the difference between autosuggestion and MILD is that you visualize yourself doin the thing you are saying in MILD? or something like that? Is MILD more effective than autosuggestion?

[Basilus_West]

so the difference between autosuggestion and MILD is that you visualize yourself doin the thing you are saying in MILD? or something like that?

That’s what I understand too. In MILD, you’ve to work on your past dreams, and visualize yourself becoming lucid in them.

Is MILD more effective than autosuggestion?

Both work rather well. About what works better with you, I suppose it’s merely a matter of preference…

[Xetrov]

@renko

Ok so the difference between autosuggestion and MILD is that you visualize yourself doin the thing you are saying in MILD? or something like that? Is MILD more effective than autosuggestion?

Autosuggestion is a part of MILD. Personally, I find that MILD works better then autosuggestion alone, and I think this is why Laberge “invented” MILD in the first place. It kind of increases the effectivity of the autosuggestion if you also visualise a scene in which you perform the action you are suggesting to yourself (in this case, become lucid during a dream). So to conclude, MILD = autosugestion + visualising.

[VeeDreams]

I believe this is my first induced lucid dream. I woke up early this morning, earlier than my normal time because I had some stuff to take care of and I knew I could go back to sleep when it was done. So, I thought I should take advantage of this time to try to have a lucid dream. Well, I had one but it was not in the place I wanted it to be. It was in my apartment where most of my lucid dreams seem to occur. I wanted it to be at my friend’s house.

While I was falling asleep I kept repeating to myself that I will be aware that I am dreaming over and over until I fell asleep. I also repeated that I wanted to have it at my friend’s house. But that part didn’t work.

Oh, I have to mention I woke up around 7am went back to sleep around 10am and woke back up after having 1 lucid dream and 1 regular dream about 2 and a half hours later.

Here is the lucid dream I had…

I’m in my apartment. It is daytime. I go into the bedroom and stand by the bed by my bedroom door. I noticed that it is daytime by looking out my bedroom window from where I am standing by my bedroom door. I go into the livingroom and hear music playing on the radio. It is a James Taylor song, I think it’s called ‘Operator’ or ‘That’s not the way it feels’. I go back into the bedroom and hear the same song playing on the bedroom radio. Both are playing at the same time. I stand on the same side of the bed again by the door and peek over into the living room to look out the window and I notice the shade is pulled down and I am the only one here and I did not do it. This is when I realize I am in a dream and I become afraid of what willl happen next because of the shade being pulled down. So, I panic and wake myself up.

I do this in most of my lucid dreams, panic and wake myself up mainly due to my fear of the unknown or not feeling that I have total control when I really do have control because it’s my dream.

I was upset at myself when I woke up in this reality.

Maybe I need some type of affirmaton to say before I go to sleep to help me not to panic or be afraid when I realize something is different in my surroundings in my dream and to just use it or change it around.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Thanks!

[VeeDreams]

Oh, I also wanted to mention…

If you notice in my signiture it says LD = 2. I had a natural lucid dream on April 1st and I paniced and woke myself up in that one too because my lamp was missing. The light switch I touched to turn on my hall light did not work either but that did not make me panic, the missing lamp did. Weird huh?

Well, by this lucid dream occuring on April 1st, I felt that my subconscious may have been playing an April fools joke on me by removing my lamp.

Hey, anything is possible, right?

[Basilus_West]

@VeeDreams

I do this in most of my lucid dreams, panic and wake myself up mainly due to my fear of the unknown. […] Maybe I need some type of affirmaton to say before I go to sleep to help me not to panic or be afraid…

Negative suggestions (not to be afraid for instance) are said not to be very good. You just have to convince yourself it’s wonderful to be lucid!
But I don’t think you need this, indeed. It’s rather normal to panic when facing unknown. In your further dreams, you’ll certainly and naturally behave in a more calm way.

[VeeDreams]

Thanks, Basilus.

I see what you mean. I just have to get use to it. It is a fear of the unknown and I’m starting to realize now that there is nothing to fear in my dreams.

I have only felt comfortable in a few of my lucid dreams. I want to have more like that soon. I feel I will be calmer in the future because now I am understanding what LD’s are and how great they can be.

[Brambleburr]

When you sucess with MILD, what happens? I mean… do you know that youre dreaming when you start dreaming, or do you just happen to do an RC cause you told yourself to do so before falling asleep?
And another thing: If you do MILD without WBTB, do you have LD’s during nREM or what? I just don’t get it

[Jack]

1.Any can happen- you may just notice you`re dreaming, you may just remember to test the reality…no rules here really.
2.No.Lds during nonREM happen(or so we think - theres really no way of telling without eeg machine) regardless of technique.

Let me explain MIILD to you.Its pretty simple- MILD is basically all you do about dreaming in general- your RCs, your dream diary, your thoughts during the day, reading about dreams, keepening the awareness…etc.
As you can say from the description theres no one proper way of doing MILD although you can do some things “better”
1.Dream Diary - note your dreams(or emotions, or anything you can remember when waking up)
2.After few weeks you should be able to spot “dream signs”(DS)- things that occur in your dreams most often.Such as school or riding on the bus, or water or sex or…etc.
3.Once you have the list of your ds you can start doing your RCs according to them.I.e- you dream often about swimming.Then you do your RCS when you swim or when you think of swimming…etc.Anything thats connected with your ds somehow.
Apart of doing RCs you can state to yourself out loud before sleeping(or anytime) “im dreaming when im swimming”.Its important to do so.

Of course you can go your own way when doing MILD ,i just gave you the example combo that may enhance lucid dreaming.

Good luck

[Brambleburr]

@Jack

2.No.Lds during nonREM happen(or so we think - theres really no way of telling without eeg machine) regardless of technique.

Maby it’s a little bit (or a big bit ) off topic, but what’s the point by doing wild as you go to sleep the first time, then?
(I’ve read that pro’s can do that)

[Basilus_West]

You’re right Brambleburr, it’s possible to have LD’s during nREM sleep.

[Jeremy]

You’re right Brambleburr, it’s possible to have LD’s during nREM sleep.

You don’t have dreams in nREM sleep. In the case of WILD, you either…

a)Simply remain conscious through nREM sleep, then go into a dream when you get there.
or
b)Skip right to REM.

I am not sure which though.

[Jack]

actually…
1.Indeed theres much smaller chance to have ld when doing WILD when going to bed first time.WILD tech is to be done after some sleep(but that does not mean one can not try other times)
2.If you sleep deprived REM starts earlier and sometimes even right off

 It is said it is possibile to have nonrem lds.I just pointed out that one has no chance to say wheter his/her dream was in REM or nonrem phase without equipment.

What you have quoted means that lds in nonrem can happen wheter you have done WILD,MILD or any -ild

[Basilus_West]

@Jeremy

You don’t have dreams in nREM sleep.

Here is my answer.

“Foulkes’s findings when they appeared in 1962, […] supported findings on the significant number of NREM dream reports in an earlier paper by a team of researchers at the Downstate Medical Center in Brooklyn (Goodenough, Shapiro, Holden, & Steinschriber, 1959). There also was an extensive study by Kamiya (1961) showing the same results.”

“The brainstem theorists […] have altered their original theory, which claimed that dreaming only occurred during REM, to acknowledge some dreaming during Stage II NREM late in the sleep period (Hobson, 1992; Hobson et al., 2000).” Domhoff, G. W. (2001). A new neurocognitive theory of dreams.

“There are marked differences between NREM dreams and REM dreams. NREM dreams tend to be anchored in reality and experienced as a semiconscious state of serenity. REM dreams are markedly “bizarre”, lacking common sense, logic and often characterized by quick transitions in plot and setting. Often, when a person is awakened from REM sleep, they remember vividly the events of their dreams”. Robert R. Miller, 1998.

About the amount of NREM dreams:

“While as many as 70-95% of people awakened during REM remember their dreams, only 5-10% of those awakened during NREM report dreams.” The American Psychoanalytic Association

But it seems that this poor dream rate during NREM sleep is only due to a poor dream recall.

“The experimental design created by Herman et al. (1978) included two laboratory assistants who served as the “experimenters” and four groups, each with 10 participants. The key variable was the false belief that some participants were being given a drug that had been found to increase dream recall from 20% to 92% in NREM sleep and from 86% to 99% in REM sleep. […] The study showed that raising the expectancy of dream recall in either the experimenters or the participants could increase the frequency of dream reports from NREM awakenings.” G. William Domhoff, University of California, 2001

Some recent experiments seems to show that there are at least as much nREM dreams as REM dreams.

[darkmatter]

@Jack

1.Any can happen- you may just notice you`re dreaming, you may just remember to test the reality…no rules here really.
2.No.Lds during nonREM happen(or so we think - theres really no way of telling without eeg machine) regardless of technique.

Let me explain MIILD to you.Its pretty simple- MILD is basically all you do about dreaming in general- your RCs, your dream diary, your thoughts during the day, reading about dreams, keepening the awareness…etc.
As you can say from the description theres no one proper way of doing MILD although you can do some things “better”
1.Dream Diary - note your dreams(or emotions, or anything you can remember when waking up)
2.After few weeks you should be able to spot “dream signs”(DS)- things that occur in your dreams most often.Such as school or riding on the bus, or water or sex or…etc.
3.Once you have the list of your ds you can start doing your RCs according to them.I.e- you dream often about swimming.Then you do your RCS when you swim or when you think of swimming…etc.Anything thats connected with your ds somehow.
Apart of doing RCs you can state to yourself out loud before sleeping(or anytime) “im dreaming when im swimming”.Its important to do so.

Of course you can go your own way when doing MILD ,i just gave you the example combo that may enhance lucid dreaming.

Good luck

smacks forhead

I had no idea that your RC’s should be used along with your DS. I was simply doing RC’s whenever I saw something weird, now i’m gonna go through my journal and look at whats common in my dreams. Thank You So Much!