The BIG WILD Topic - Part XIII

welcome to the forum!

Thanks! :smile:

The stage where your limbs start becomming weightless is
not SP yet. It is part of the process where the mind
withdraws it’s external senses.

I see! Good to know. Though this does mean that SP will come soon, correct? At which NREM stage does SP manifest itself?

Lack of HI does not need to cause abortion of the WILD,
you can focus on other things aswell (like counting, or
breathing), untill you are in the dream.

That’s what I thought; though I’ve had troubles in the past with concentrating on things too intently, preventing me from falling asleep. Perhaps I just need to better learn how to relax…

Also I dont know about the “dont focus for more then 3
seconds” idea, as far as I’m concerned you do have to stay
focussed on 1 thing untill your body is asleep.

Yeah. Unfortunately I can’t find the site where I read that. I tried thinking of multiple things last night while falling asleep, but all that did was launch me into a ND. :neutral:

If you want an additional technique to continue your WILD,
take a look at this.
Good luck!

Sounds interesting! Although it does involve WBTB technique, which I am trying to avoid. If there’s one method that I’m willing to work with and master, it will be WILD (of course, if I simply cannot do it, I will try other methods, but thus far I haven’t enough experience with WILD to give up just yet).

Thanks for the reply. :content:

Another question: If using WILD to LD, how important is it to do RC in WL?

I would think it starts only at nREM phase 3 or 4, (onset) deep sleep. After that also in REM ofcourse.

Also you really should try WILD + WBTB or, whenever you wake up during the night (you dont need to stay up long, do it the moment you wake up).

RC’s for WILD aren’t too important, because you stay conscious throughout the whole process, so you dont need a RC to become lucid.

Xetrov-i was reading that post you made in the link in the previous post about waking up half way in the middle of the night then picture yourself spinning you will enter a LD…could this technique also work going to bed on a normal night if you waited for yourself to start to fall asleep then picture yourself spinning?

i doubt ill be able to do it n e way’s but it would be worth a try

i cant do WBTB because i live with my mom, dad, and sister and if i woke n e of them with an alarm at 4 in the morning they would definately kill me

Thanks Xetrov,

If I employ a WBTB/WILD combo, can this possibly help me in my WILD-only quest for lucidity? It’s definitely true you return to the REM state shortly after wake, as this morning I fell back asleep and started dreaming almost instantly (ND, unfortunately :tongue: ). I’m tempted to try WBTB tonight, as I’ve heard it is a reliable technique, but I’m afraid I might not be able to fall asleep again after the wake.

Anyway, I found that thing I mentioned earlier…

Found it at the Lucid Dreaming Wikibook! Should someone edit this maybe? :confused:

I was looking around and found that the only real difference between MILD and WILD is that with the latter, the dreamer is fully concious throughout the HI/Dream transition. MILD, on the other hand, you concentrate and keep your mind awake as your body falls asleep, but “let go” before or during intense HI, only to “find” yourself in a dream and (hopefully) become aware and lucid.

I think if I try MILD, it will help me with WILD. Anyone here use MILD to strengthen their WILD technique?

WBTB helps a lot. The forementionned techniques could of course work when going to bed, but with WBTB you’re almost in the good state to make them work immediatly.

You’re right, it’s not very clear. They mean you don’t have be caught by discursive thoughts. When you focus on something, if you lose your awareness and begin to think, you have to come back immediatly to the thing you focused on.

MILD is based upon autosuggestion. The fact you fall asleep or not while doing this is not important. Generally, you don’t cross the HI stage when MILD’ing. You just have to be in a relaxed state, so that autosuggestion works better.

I don’t think MILD could help strengthening your WILD technique. In order to make WILD work, you have to learn how to go through the HI stage, how to balance your awareness so that you don’t fall asleep inconsciously or in the other hand you are conscious too much and can’t sleep. In my opinion, MILD is useless to learn this.

Yes it could, but it will be like infinite times harder to do. Which counts for any WILD tech anyway. Thats why you have to, somehow, be able to combine it with WBTB. You dont need an alarm for that by the way, drink a glass of water and tell yourself “when I need to pee I’ll wake up”, this works great (and no, it wont wet your bed, not likely anyway :razz:). If you get used to waking up at night (anyone can learn this!), you can use these short semi-waking periods greatly to your advantage for this is the time WILD is easiest!

Jacques, same advice counts for you :smile:.

No, this is correct. However you should not confuse different WILD methods. The method described here is a way to enter a LD through actively stimulating your HI’s. This is not done through focus, more by letting your thoughts wander, thus creating momentum for the HI. Personally I think this is dangerous since it means you can lose awareness fast and fall asleep non lucid. Besides this technique there are many which require a focus. This means keeping your awareness on a certain feat, like breathing, or counting. So ehm, Basilus, what you wrote on this is not entirely on topic… :razz:.

Thanks guys for taking the time to help me out, I really appreciate it :twirl:

I think learning how to reliably induce LD’s is one of the most rewarding things someone can do for themselves.

Anyway, last night I attempted MILD (pre-first-dream), but this resulted in a ND. I awoke after this first ND, and decided that since I was already at this point, I had three options: MILD (post-first-dream), WILD, or WBTB (or combos, of course). I ran through the dream I just had and realized I missed a completely obvious dreamsign: the lightswitch in my bathroom failed to work! I even remember playing with the switch, trying to make it functional again! Gah SO CLOSE! :tongue: I didn’t see it as a dreamsign because my usage of the lightswitch was not a RC. I did it because it was dark; I guess I believed the bulbs were blown out. Haha

I then tried WILD because I remembered how successful people have been with the WBTB/WILD combo, which was sort of where I was at this point anyway. Unfortunately I could not fall asleep and eventually “gave up” since it was 3am and I wanted to get some sleep!

This morning I woke up and tried WILD again, since I remembered that the REM stage can easily be brought back when you wake up from a night of sleep. I’ve never been this close before; I was fully concious during SP and this was actually pretty frightening! A COMPLETELY new and totally weird body sensation that really caught me off guard! Of course, this woke me up, and I ended up getting out of bed after a few more failed attempts.

Conclusion: Now that I know what SP actually feels like, I know what to expect and be able to assure myself that everything is fine and these feelings are supposed to happen. Cool. :cool:

Hi guys,

Everyone having success WILD’ing lately? :-p

Anyway… I was wondering; during WILD, the point is to stay concious during nREM1, 2, 3, 4, 3, and 2 - after which comes REM, when the LD should begin?

Are those successful with WILD able to discern in which stage of sleep he or she is currently in or passing through?

I was curious because I feel somewhat as if I’m getting “stuck” - after SP I fall into a state of complete physical relaxation (not sure if I am actually paralyzed or if I’ve woken myself out of it, but I can certainly feel its onset) but my brain is quite active. I effortlessly [and conciously] progress through dream-like scenarios in my head, letting them flow in whichever direction they please but still remaining concious. I’ve been stuck at this point of “partial” dreaming for a while now and it’s really odd. Thinking this was a stage of sleep I’ve allowed it to go on for several hours, but end up “releasing” and simply going into a ND.

The funny thing is, I can prolong this state for several hours on end per night (not that fun, heh) and not wake up tired or groggy! It’s as if my body is sleeping, my brain is dreaming, but my conciousness extends such as that the dreams do not fully engulf my senses.

Your thoughts?

Errr… The real cycle is 1, 2, 3, 4, REM / 1, 2, 3, 4, REM, etc.

It’s possible that during WILD, if you don’t WBTB, you enter consciously in nREM dreams, or perhaps even in a modified state of consciousness. OBE’ists have been mesured in stage 1 and 2. It’s perhaps the reason why it’s easier to WILD after a WBTB, cause it’s perhaps easier to WILD in a REM sleep stage.

Uhh… I know you’re way more experienced than I am with dreaming and sleep and such, but I’m fairly positive the stages reverse after 4 before going into REM.

In fact, this seems to be verified by the following sources: … t_dreaming

Anyway, my LD motivation at the moment is pretty weak so chances of me having one are slim. I think I need to read some more positive LD reports before trying again. :tongue:

That modified state of conciousness thing sounds interesting. Perhaps my attempts to WILD are resulting in OBE’s, albeit weak ones :shy:

Oops! :shy: Thank you Jacques for pointing this out. I had not understood how sleep cycles worked!

/me runs away and hides… :peek:

Basilus West you are awesome… I’ve been to too many forums where the elders (let alone moderators!) will never accept a correction put forth by a n00b like myself. :colgate:

(and I didn’t realize just how many emoticons there are too choose from here at LD4ALL! :lol: )

Anyway… I’ve found that focusing on the third eye while trying to WILD is really helping me “break into” the sleep cycle, i.e. being awake and concious to being asleep and concious. It keeps me focused and aware while at the same time not fully occupying my thoughts such as to chase sleep away, which is what usually happens when I try counting. Counting used to work; maybe now I’m just doing it for too long.

I’ve found that WILD is actually a pretty intensive process. I went into this thinking all I had to do was stay aware while I fell asleep, but have now realized that the physical and mental body undergo a lot of change when falling asleep - changes that all require understanding of what’s going on, and what to do to mentally as your body continues to progress into a deeper state of sleep. Nothing but practice will help a person gain this understanding and thereby acquire success.

Sleep well,

Thank you. :smile: But I’ve to say that before I admitted you were right, I verified at the Sleep laboratory of the University of Lyons website, though… :wink:

I agree with you. I noticed on this forum that it was rather difficult to explain how WILD worked, and especially what to do when you reach the HH stage, because there are many ways of falling asleep. Though it seems they could be sorted in 3 classes (visual, auditive or kinesthetic hallucinations), everybody has his own way of falling asleep indeed. And you cannot explain why it’s easy for some people, and difficult to others… :confused:

I’m having troubles with WILD. My body paralyzes as it goes into sleep, but I keep wanting to open my eyes so it doesn’t work :grrr: because my head remains awake and I don’t know how to go to the next stage because whenever I focus on the dots flying around and stuff my eyes want to open. Can someone please please help me :cry: :help: Thanks

All I can say is… don’t pay too much attention to it and ignore it. If you get deeper into trance/SP, it usually stops. Instead of focusing and worrying about your eyes, let it go and let yourself sink deeper into relaxation (for instance by imagining yourself sink through the bed or fall down in an elevator). If you’re in full SP, or when you feel vibrations/see vivid HI/hear noises, you can for instance shift your awareness to a dream scene and keep this image fixed inside your mind. The trick is not to pay attention anymore to these strange phenomena like vibrations, SP, noises which are all a result of the physical body falling asleep. Instead, concentrate on only one thing, and one thing only; this one thing needs to be connected to the dream you’re about to enter (so definitely not something to do with your physical body, like breathing, counting or the strange SP sensations). Two possibilities: let yourself be carried away by the HI (this is pretty tough, because you have to flow with them passively without interacting too much with them)… when they’re pretty much developped, you can visualize a scene related to the HI you’re perceiving, and feel yourself entirely in that scene… if you’re lucky, the HI will totally engulf you and change into a full blown dream. The second possibility is to ignore HI and solely concentrate on a particular dream scene you wish yourself to be found in, like standing on a beach, reading a book, etc… Really visualize it as if you’re actually being there. Feel the textures, the sensations, see whatever you intend to see, visualize it as vividly as possible. Keep focused on it no matter what happens to your physical body at that moment (but again, don’t overdo it or you’ll wake up because you’re too much aware… it’s really about balancing awareness when shifting from waking life to dream life). There are many other techniques you can use. But all of them require a lot of practice, so don’t panic if it doesn’t work the first, second or twentieth time. Keep practicing and you’ll get there eventually.

Good luck! :smile:

i was just talking to someone who said their mother was wiccan and taught him lucid dreaming as a child and he said that the shock of WILD’s is what you need to get into the lucid dream. So next time you start getting freaked out at all the weird voices and noises remember that those sounds are imperative to the wild. But sometimes i get tricked and think those things are actually happening and want to go see what it is and end up pulling out.

I don’t think a shock is necessary. But what do you mean exactly by “the shock of WILD”?

Hey, guys. :smile:

Just wondering – when you’re imagining a dream scene to slip into while trying WILD, does it necessarily have to be sitting or laying in bed? Can you imagine running, or even walking down the stairs? Is it more difficult to slip into a LD via movement than just staying still?

Thanks in advance. :smile:

No it doesn’t necesaarily have to be sitting or laying in bed. You can walk down the stairs. (that’s what I do, and I count every step…)
I think it’s for everybody different. Some people found it easier by staying still, and other via movement.

I think the information that person imparted was more about stressing the importance of freaky occurances during WILD, that and informing beginners (which he may have thought i was because i ask millions of questions)that those occurances meant it was working and to focus on them.
But (and this may seem difficult or perplexing) the thing i think would help alot of people is developing a way to distinguish between the real and the WILD. Now alot of us here are already proficient at determining whats real and isn’t, but i have been fooled alot into thinking somebody is actually in my room and im just really tired. To eliminate this confusion i would put a note on my door for no one to come in and ask politely that no one do any loud activities around the latter part of my sleep. Either that or tie up and ball gag everyone in the house before i go to bed.

This discussion continues here --> Part 14