We can give English poetry a try. Just propose, lets see if the members are willing to try! 
Alright, well I think I’ve decided on the choices for next moon’s reading circle.
-On the Road, by Jack Kerouac
-Naked Lunch, by William S. Burroughs
-Choke, by Chuck Palahniuk
-Waiting Period, by Hubert Selby, Jr.
Most of these books contain sexual content, explicit language, and drug content, Naked Luch being the most explicit, and On the Road being the cleanest. I have yet to read Waiting Period, but it sounds exelent and I plan on it, so why not read it for the reading circle? Should I post a new poll, Bruno?
I’m surprised you even suggest them DayLight. No poll will be made with those books. Please keep to the forum guidelines in your choice of books as well.
Also, you are not the next circle’s host officially. That will be decided about a week before the end of this one.
As long as there is a warning on the content of these books, and the disscussion on the exlicit topics is kept ot a minium in the reading circle thread, I see no reason why you should be able to keep us from reading any book. If nothing about sex, drugs, etc. is actually discussed in the forum, I feel that we should be able to read what we please. If you do not agree with a book’s content, then you do not have to read that book.
DayLight, I don’t think it’s a nice idea either. =
The Reading Circle’s main purpose is to gather LD4All users, and by suggesting this kind of book, we would be either leaving most underage users out or incentivating them to do something their parents do not abide and probably nor do their countries’ laws.
If you want to discuss these books, I would definately be very pleased to join you, and I believe so would a lot of people, I just don’t think this particular website is the right place to hold or promote such a discussion…
Imagine the fourteen year old user who decides to buy the book and follow the thread. One day his mother walks into the room and asks what the hell is doing with that book, and he replied it’s just somethig “everyone in a forum he’s a member of is reading.” 
I’m not saying tricky subjects are a no–no. My final draft for this moon’s list, before I had second thoughts (that I can explain on a later occasion) and chose best selling books was: The Karamazov Brothers (Dostoievski), Thus Spoke Zarathustra (Nietzsche), The Dirty Hands (Jean–Paul Sartre), the Communist Manifesto (Engels and that other guy), Animal Farm (Orwell) and We (Zamiatin).
Some of those have a certain amount of violence, most of them are heavy readings, dense and harsh. But it would be awesome to discuss them, so see the truth behind them, what lies behind the words… The manifesto would be especially nce to discuss, since both communists and anti–comunists have lost the track of what communism is nowadays—the support or prejudice are both premature.
And although I hope some of these books are discussed in the future in here, I think the reading circle has to match first of all the feel of the forum. I chose bestselling books with something more to them. I refused to choose one of the LOTR, a Harry Potter book or Alex Rider because those books are empty, they mean nothing, they’re just entertainment.
I chose books which can be both discussed and enjoyed, books I knew people would have heard about… I think you have to take a lot of things in consideration when you decide to host this kind of group, because no–one here is commited to keep following my thread, I have to make the discussion worth it.
And this starts in the choice of books. I think chosing such tough books would not only go against the forum rules, but would be a big mistake because I know that a lot of users would be uncomfortable with the choice…
Think about it.
I half agree with Daylight (and I half disagree 
). I’ve read Nausea and The Wall by Sartre when I was 14. I don’t remember which of them there was inside a short story with explicit sexual content. My mother told me she had to read it in philosophy course when she was 18 and she was disgusted. BTW, it was certainly not a great idea for a philosophy teacher to ask to read this book in a girls college. There are some books or some movies you desire to speak about with people. For instance, I really love David Lynch’s movies. Yet “Fire walk with me” twenty last minutes are really hard to bear and they even have shocked my 37 old brother. Moreover young people play at games in which they explode with railguns the heads of their opponents and walk in blood. They look at TV news in which there are shown only disasters, violence and war. Thus I think people may read the book they want to (and may not read a book if they don’t want).
I think the problem lies somewhere else. Most of the members are young on this forum. As a mod, I’ve seen tons of posts in which they complained because their parents found lucid dreaming a bad thing, because of many (wrong) reasons. I can’t even imagine what could happen if those easily shocked parents found a book like Crash by Ballard, The Wall by Sartre, Naked Lunch by Burrough or the one I had the misfortune to propose few posts above. It would be a true disaster. Now I think we are all aware of this, proposing such a book would be just malevolent towards those members. Of course, as Daylight says, we could warn people and point out what content is explicitly sexual, violent, disturbing, etc. Then there would be even less readers in the Reading Circle.
This was about shocking content. Another issue. Few months ago, we really began to be fed up with the many posts about drugs and the general confusion which was instigated between LD’ing and hallucinating and pills and false informations which were voluntarily spread by pills vendors. That’s the reason why we decided to prevent discussions about drugs and even about softer ones, because when someone starts a discussion about a relatively safe drug, another starts a thread about a harder one and it ends in advices for trying really toxic substances! Moreover, we don’t have any pharmacologist here to decide what is safe and what is unsafe. We don’t want lucid dreamers to take stupid risks, all the more so since all this stuff is not related with lucid dreaming. I hope everybody can easily understand this decision.
Now I don’t see very well how we can comment, say, “Naked Lunch” without talking about drugs. 
[edit: I just see that Bruno posted something while I was writing this. I’ll read what he wrote.]
I somewhat agree with Daylight as well. I think it should be possible to choose any book for the reading circle, but of course not all of the possible books should be full of sexual and violent content, there should be a choice. With regard to trying to include as many members as possible in this group, there are always going to be people who don’t like the chosen book, whatever its nature. And if you don’t approve of the chosen book, there’s always next months book! Of course, the discussion of the book will have to be kept within forum guidelines.
I know a big majority of LD4Alls users are young people. However, I do not see this as a big problem here. Bruno mentioned this would be incenting underage users to break their countries’ laws, but there are no age limits on books, are there? There are no laws to prohibit underage readers to read these kind of books? (Please correct me if I am wrong here)
Of course, the parents of said underage members are, as mentioned, also an issue here. I would encourage any underage members reading such a book, whether for the reading circle or any other reason, to talk to their parents first. I know you might think they’re just going to say no with no more thought, but they can be quite reasonable if you just talk to them. A lot of parents may object to the content of these books, but if that is going to be the reason for not letting their child read a book, they might as well not let them watch the news, or even TV at all. Personally, I dont think it’s harmful to, say, a fourteen-year-old to read such a book. A lot of adults may think kids can’t differentiate between fiction and real life, but it’s just a book. Any normal kid knows and understands this.
Well, one thing. If you can readily find the book available for younger people at a library, why mnot have it in the reading circle? I’m 14 and have found some so called “explicit” books and read them at home, and the library knows my age, and the content of those books, so there is clearly nothing wrong with them!
I know HebrewB. The point is, that this is LD4all. And i feel that if we are going to do a reading circle here, the books discussed should not be explicit, have drug content etc. Ofcourse you can read any book you want.
The point is, that when you have books with a lot of drugs, explicit content and what not, this will undoubtedly end up in the discussion about the books. And that’s not within the forum guidelines, so that will make discussing the books hard.
This reading circle is a new idea, an experiment. So we see how it goes.
I also would like to propose to use this topic to mention any books you really enjoyed reading, to be a subject of the reading circle. Since Bruno started the circle, and there wassn’t much time, he went ahead and selected a few books he thought would appeal to everybody.
Now, each can bring in a title of their favourite book, a book which you feel everybody should read, and we can make a poll out of those options.
We make this up as we go along, and we just have to see what works and what doesn’t work.
I think the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy is a book a lot of people will like if they havent already read it. I also recommend Life of pi, which I read quite a while ago and wouldn’t mind reading again.
Another book I think we could read is Ishmael. Its really interesting and I think theres lots to discuss about it, but I dont know how easy it would be to find.
I think the length of the books also should been having a look at. The hitchhikers guide is pretty big , and LOTR is too …
LD4all member : Reads
MOM: ARE YOU READING STILL !DO HOMEWORK.
LD4all member :But I have to get it read for the forum Im member of !
MOM: WHAT !
…
lol petter
the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, only the first book, is not so big. The whole collection of all books, that one is big 
i’d also want to recommend “ender’s game” by O.S. Card
I LOVE THAT BOOK! 
And while we’re at it, we could read the Brazillian book it’s accused of plagiarizing: Max and the Cats. 
Great suggestion. I don’t agree with even 5% of that book, but I’d really like to discuss it! 
Naked Lunch and Choke would be hard books to discuss without bringing drug and sexual content into the discussions. I have realized that Naked Lunch and Choke may be a bit much.
I think those of you that have read “on the road” can attest that it is appropriate. I havn’t read waiting period, so I dont know about that one. I have just begun reading Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, and love it. Perhaps one of her shorter books, such as Anthem could be read. But again, my point stands. I think as long as the disscusions do not contain explicit material, they sould be allowed on the reading circle should we vote to read them.
This is entirely false. I bet if we all tried hard enough, we could discuss a book like Naked Luch without discussing any explicit content, but rather discuss the philosophies of the book.
Anyway, as for younger readers(I think 14 is not to young to read these books. I read Naked Lunch at 14, and that is one of the most explicit books ever writen. Mass drug use, detailed descriptions of orgies and necrophilia, just incredibly dirty, and I turned out fine. I read, understood that it was fiction, and went on with my life), I think as long as we post that is is recomended for older readers, provide non-explicit material in the poll so readers who do not enjoy that material can vote for something they would like better, we sould not be held responsible for younger kids who read this book and get in trouble for it. We warned them. Plus, reading a book like Naked Lunch is not the worst a kid could do. Here in the US, there are news stories a few times a year about 10 and 11 year old kids bringing guns to school. If I came home and found my kid reading a book like that, I’d just be happy he was reading. So it’s not like we are encouraging destructive behavior.
As for being uninclusive by reading explicit books, you can be uninclusive in other ways to. The reading circle will always have that to some degree, because someone may not like the book. I started this moon’s book, The Hobbit, and after about the second chapter, I decided I didn’t like it. I don’t like fantasy books. So because my specific taste in literature does not match that of this moon’s reading circle, I will respectfully tell them I do not like the book, and go to the library and get another(something I have to do after writing this post). So everyone will not be included, no matter what the content of the book.
Really the next host should be someone who has taken part fully in a previous month. I think you may have just disqualified yourself for next month.
(As far as book choice is concerned, I agree with the others that it shouldn’t be heavy on explicit content. 13-14 year old kids may be able to handle stuff like that but in the end, there might still be some negative effects of it. Reading such books might not be the worst a kid could do, but still we should try to limit ourselves as best we can in what material we give out in these forums. Also, I read somewhere that disclaimers aren’t really found in some countries so even if we do have warnings about explicit content, it won’t really do much in extreme situations. And besides, I agree that we should keep it with the feel of the forum.)
I think the Dune series by Frank Herbert is a great read. They are probably my favorite books of all time. It really delves in well to politics, religion, and humanity.(Aside from the Destination: Void series by the same author.) The book I like most there is: Dune Messiah.
The Destination: Void series is great too, in my opinion. Like Dune it deals heavily on philosophical matters and is a psychologicanl novel. I especially liked the presmise of an artificial intelligence that thinks its god. If I had to choose only one book from the series, it would be: The Jesus Incident. It has one of my most liked endings of any book. It is actually my one of my favorite books of all (if not my favorite book).
I loved the Foundation series too by Isaac Asimov. The story is quite amazing to me. I liked how he managed to predict the future using only psychiatry. The first book is an okay start there. It a very fun read.
NICE book choice, Alvin!
To be honest with you, I too don’t think 14 is young. At all. At the age of fourteen, I was reading Simone de Beauvoir, Eugene Zamiatine and my first Dostoiévski short stories…
However—I don’t think parents share the same ideas I do on their children maturity. Ask Jason—I see him as completely mature to read one of these books. He should be fine, really. But ask him if he wouldn’t be hidding that from his parents.
Geez, one could be serisouly grounded for reading explicit books. I don’t want any parent to ban their children from this forum because of the circle! oO
I mean that 14 years old MAY be very mature
And some should still be in kindergarten
Oh well, I hope not, but if so, thats okay, I’ll just take part next moon and try to host again after that. It could give me some time to find more appropriate books, anyway.
I just picked up Gender Blender by Blake Nelson up and it looks like a funny read. ^^
(This has been a forced post brought to you by Bruno Ansarah corp. )
(Okay, fine, not really forced, but suggested! 
)