what in the world is happening???

Lucid Lounge
1

hey everyone. most anyone that has read my posts knows that i’m into spirituality and fogiveness and love and all that, but if you didn’t you know now.

a couple months ago I met Ross, this really cool and nice guy that just moved to my city and this is his first year at my school. i’ve hung out with him a little and gotten to know him and let me tell ya he is the sweetest/nicest person i know right now. a few months back a girl had a seizure in his english class and he helped keep her head up and everything until the medics came, and i just thought that was so unselfish of him and it filled me up with a bunch of positive energy.

ever since then i’ve been sort of ‘attracted’ to him because of the positive energy thing and naturally wanted to hang around him more often. it was comforting to know that there is someone so unconcerned with himself and it just makes me feel good every time i see him.

so he invites me to his youth group meetings, and I think, “well that seems nice, not exactly what i had in mind, but i’ll get to hang around him more, so i guess i’ll go” and I went for a few weeks. it’s been really fun but lately their point-of-view about the world and opinions don’t match mine at all. maybe it’s just the language or wording they use, i’m not sure, but i lost inspiration to go there. but the funny thing that happened was there was this concert tonight of this christian band and they had lyrics up on a video screen. i was thinking about Ross and this is what he invited me to and what does this really mean for my life? I’m getting unattached to these meetings but Ross seems really nice, and I don’t wanna give him up so easily.

then it hit me. i’m still kind of shocked by it. in the middle of thinking (and in the middle of one of the songs), I hear his name, only I look up at the lyrics and it says “cross” but almost instantly i separated the “c” from “cross” and something just said “c ross” as in “see Ross” and I was SHOCKED by this. I thought “what in the hell can this mean? do I see Ross as in not wanting to be here? or should I see Ross as in this is who he is? Maybe i’m not seeing him clearly enough???”

but that insight was so powerful I cannot doubt it was from a higher power of some sort. it was a message so to speak. so what do I do? i’ve pretty much lost inspiration to go to these meetings, which makes me feel bad because Ross invited me to them, but at the same time I don’t wanna be away from Ross because he gives me so much positive energy.

well thanks everyone for reading. i probably just needed to vent a little but if you have any ideas or thoughts please post them here. thanks!!

2

You have a very strong sence of awareness to catch that, I sometimes have expireances like that, if im tuned in to synchronesty. I notice alot of coinsidenses, but usually I just take them for granted, and dont follow the “signs”. I would go with it, and C ROSS, if you noticed it. Then it means something or else you would have just seen Cross, and nothing more.

3

you know what, that’s very true. i need to dig deeper, definiely tonight, on what i think that means. thanks for sharing that.

4

If you feel disattached and not ‘in tune’ with those meetings, couldn’t you just not attend them anymore and C Ross in another setting? You shouldn’t have to see him only on the meetings should you? You could hang out with him on other things? Follow your heart.

5

yep Q, that’s what i’ve been thinking. i guess i haven’t really been conscious of how i really feel, i’ve just been going with the flow and to every meeting at that, but yeah, that realization hit me hard so now i’m thinking about it hehe… anyways i’ll let him know my decision to quit and hopefully be with him somewhere other than the meetings. i know he’ll understand…

thanks Q for the suggestion! i’m learning to follow my heart more and more every day and this is just one more step to achieve that. thanks!

6

you’re welcome and good luck :smile:

(i wanted to click on another topic to view but this one appeared, so there another synchronicity :smile: )

7

hey everyone… again :smile: I have an update on the whole situation and I think I’m as lost as I’ll ever be. If anything, please leave some supporting words because I really need them right now.

After a while I told Ross the reason I quit and he invited me to go back and to tell the group sponsors/adults why I felt uncomfortable in the first place, so I decided to go back. It wasn’t until tonight until I expereinced their “unfriendliness” for the second time, this time much more powerful.

Anyway, I’m pretty sure of what C-ROSS means now (if you don’t know about the C-ROSS thing, look at my first post in this thread). I think it means that I’m seeing him in the group, or at least a part of him. We talked about discipleship and ministering in the group and the adults shared ideas that only Christians were the saved people that were going to Heaven and that Jesus wants us to spread his word to everyone. Let me just say that so many of the things the adults said contradicted what I believe (I believe everyone goes to Heaven and while Jesus’s words are sacred (as are the Buddha’s and all the other prophets out there), Jesus doesn’t REQUIRE that they be spread around). So, just like in my first post, some words were exchanged that I just couldn’t stand to hear, so I decided to leave again.

Ross has no idea how I’m feeling right now, and neither does any of the other group, so what I’m planning on doing is telling a few older members of the group ( around my age, 17-18 ) about what I truly believe and how their words exclude me, just by their language, not to mention I’m also not a Christian. And them hearing all this may send them over the edge, and they may try to get into my head and force their beliefs onto me, or even worse (maybe) they will just refuse to include me, talk to me, unless I believe their beliefs (which there is no way I’m going to do, simply because I’m very satisfied with mine and the way my life is going so far) so I’m just hoping they accept me the way I am and not try to shove any beliefs down my throat.

If you are a Christian, my objective is not to offend you in any way. I know some (probably most) Christians don’t try to force any beliefs down anyone’s throat, but the language I heard at the meeting tonight makes me believe that they either want people to be the same as them or just exclude them altogether.

So, to be honest, I’m scared of what’s going to happen tomorrow when I tell them all this and finally take the load (or cross, hah) off my shoulders. I don’t want them to not accept me, but if that’s the way they want to deal with it, I’ll just have to live with it, but it will hurt me bad to see Ross just reject me like that, just because I’m not a Christian. And that shouldn’t even be the point: I’m a pretty nice guy who likes to make friends and doesn’t exclude anyone and tries to spread joy to everyone’s life, but the mere fact I’m NOT a Christian shouldn’t be the reason to just flat-out reject me like that… but I’m still not sure how he or anyone will take it… so please give me words of encouragement and support so I know people on this board accept me… thanks a lot for reading this and if there’s anything you need help with, let me know.

thanks again! :content:

8

Whoa I thought you were a girl… so are you interested in Ross as a friend, or something more? (don’t take offense, that’s the way it seemed to me)

"Anyway, I’m pretty sure of what C-ROSS means now (if you don’t know about the C-ROSS thing, look at my first post in this thread). I think it means that I’m seeing him in the group, or at least a part of him. We talked about discipleship and ministering in the group and the adults shared ideas that only Christians were the saved people that were going to Heaven and that Jesus wants us to spread his word to everyone. Let me just say that so many of the things the adults said contradicted what I believe (I believe everyone goes to Heaven and while Jesus’s words are sacred (as are the Buddha’s and all the other prophets out there), Jesus doesn’t REQUIRE that they be spread around). So, just like in my first post, some words were exchanged that I just couldn’t stand to hear, so I decided to leave again. "

Maybe you should “save” Ross, christians try to “save” people all the time… you said something akin to seeing him as part of that group, maybe it’s just your minds way of trying to get your attention to say hey, this group has influence over this guy, and maybe they aren’t doing him much good.

Then… crosses tend to symbolize sacrifice… maybe … he is sacrificing something? Maybe he has to sacrifice the whole churchey setting in order to connect with you?

I don’t know… you’re the only one that can really interpret what you experienced… but don’t go to those meetings anymore, he wanted you to go to the meeting to explain why you felt the way you did, so that they as a collective could “prove you wrong”

that seems almost certain to me… one person is not secure in his beliefs, but a mob of them sure is. Having 20 people tell you you’re wrong and going to hell (i’m not sure if they did that?) is a little more effective and persuasive than having one tell you that.

I wish I knew more on the subject of this sort of “mass brainwashing” … it’s certainly related to socio/psycho-logy … but it’s not something I’ve read up on much.

I’m willing to bet the reason he wanted you to go is not so much to give you a chance to have an open dialog, but rather to try and get the group to “save your soul” … if a Christian discusses his religion, it’s usually to try to convert, and if an agnostic/atheist discusses his viewpoints on religion, it’s usually to subvert.

(maybe those are big generalizations)

9

thanks a lot, holy reality… to be honest, I was looking for “something more” but because he’s not looking for the same thing I am, a simple friendship is all I’m pursuing. no offense taken.

your suggestion that I might try to “save” him seems to make the most sense to me. he did just move to the city I live in about 6 months ago, so he’s relatively new to the group. based on what the group has said tonight, it’s not very beneficial to people who don’t believe the same they do (obviously) so they definitely aren’t doing him (and me) much good.

I can see your interpretation of the sacrificing thing, too. I never really thought of it that way. I guess for him to really understand where I’m coming from, he’d have to let go of his current beliefs and just delve into mine for a bit, but I’m in no way forcing him to do that.

I’m definitely not going to any more meetings. After anything in my life shows me twice that it’s not for me, I leave it. I quit my first job that way, because incidents happened that were detrimental to my well-being, so I quit. Same thing is going to happen here.

I don’t think his main objective is to “prove me wrong”. As I said, the group has no idea what I really believe. He did say I could share whatever made me uncomfortable, and he might have an idea that I do have different beliefs, but I don’t think he’s trying to change me… well now that I think about it, he could, but I really hope not!

I think he’s pretty secure in his beliefs, but for having met someone like me (gay and not a Christian) might have set him off guard from what he believes. Although he said to me that he didn’t think “Gay people were the devil” he was still a little uncomfortable with the fact that I am. And now that he thinks (or at least will know by tomorrow) that I don’t even believe in the same religion he does and that I’ve been lying to him all along will probably not put us on good standing, but at least I will be honest, get what I need to get off my chest, and hopefully that will lead to us sharing our feelings of hurt and try to heal from the hurt my lies and his misunderstanding caused.

I’m still trying to figure out what all this means, but I just can’t live with the fact of being deceitful anymore towards him or the rest of the group, so tomorrow morning, I’ll tell everyone my personal truth and what I believe and hopefully that will help everyone understand where I’m coming from.

Anyways you did get really close with interpretation, and thanks a lot for the suggestions. I’ll definitely keep this thread updated as to what happens. If anyone else has any words of support or encouragement, please share them.

Wish me luck tomorrow morning! :smile:

10

I wish you the best of luck.

"I can see your interpretation of the sacrificing thing, too. I never really thought of it that way. I guess for him to really understand where I’m coming from, he’d have to let go of his current beliefs and just delve into mine for a bit, but I’m in no way forcing him to do that. "

but the problem is… you know, which one of you is even right in the first place? Neither I guess… to “save” … you’d have to think you have the better situation… now I personally do… but… I don’t know…

How fundamental is he? Because I mean, a gay non-Christian is a huge target for conversion… most Christians seem to think homosexuality is wrong… and I’d wager even more of them think being a “non-Christian” is wrong…

So it’s tough… it doesn’t seem like you have any problems with him being a Christian, but it seems like he probably has problems with you being what you are… and that is usually the scenario…

In my mind, being a Christian denotes believing, having faith, that you are correct, that you are on the only correct path… (it depends how devout he is) so… ultimately, he is going to think you are wrong. He might not look down on you for it, he might even think it’s perfectly okay to live the way you do, he might even think you will still get into heaven, but in his mind, HE is on the right path, and you are therefore on the wrong path by default.

and that’s going to be nestled in his head somewhere… so it just seems like that’s why he wanted to take you to the group… to try and show you the “light” and “save” you…

maybe not.

I don’t really think there is much you can do aside from open his mind… I don’t think there is anything wrong with being a Christian, but I think each and every person on this earth needs to get exposed to as many different religions, ideas, concepts, etc, as possible… to get their mind working, to get them to become more tolerant, more diverse, and more open minded.

The worst and meanest Christians aren’t those who live in an area of religious diversity, they are the ones who live in a sea of mindless Christian clones who never even begin to encounter challenges to their belief systems. They are residents of the Bible Belt, or worse, the deep south… they know NOTHING else other than Christianity, and so they are liable to pretty damn intolerant and sure of themselves.

This ties into the group meeting, but I guess it’s a little off topic… the main point is that is how you could “save” him maybe, not to try and get him out of his religion, as there are certainly tremendous values to the teachings of Christ (though in my opinion the old testament is worthless garbage if taken literally, and will serve to turn you into a very bad person)… the goal is just to get him to open his mind about certain things, in your case, homosexuality, and atheist/agnosticism.

bascially expose him to that world, he might not be familiar with it at all, but don’t expect or try to force change.

Good luck… and DO NOT EXPECT POSITIVE RESULTS from the youth group meeting… the best you can hope for is that they act lovingly and respectful toward you, but odds are they are still going to try to tell you that you are wrong in some way shape or form.

11

You have nothing to feel guilty about! You went to their meetings… gave it chance… it didn’t work out.

Like Holy Reality said… he shouldn’t have brought you back to explain your reasons to the group - collective… that is just a strategy, and they are manipulating you with guilt. If he had only moved in a few months ago, he may have not had any other support networks and was easy prey for this network of fundies!

If Ross can’t see you as a friend cause your not a christian then you have to ask yourself is he the same Ross you thought he was?

C Ross… See Ross for what he really is!

12

It sounds like you are more Christian than they are. I once heard this, and I agree: there is a difference between Christianity and Churchianity.

Maybe you said this, but have you talked to Ross about this not in the group setting?

13

do my posts seem negative, harsh, or just… unreasonable to any of you?

This is how I feel, but when I make these kinds of posts I sometimes regret it, like I’m being too harsh to Christianity…

I don’t at all want to steer this off topic, but I’m wondering if any of you have been in similar situations as the thread starter, and if you have any experience of whether “intimate” relationships with them works out?

I’m in a place where almost everyone is Christian, and a lot of people pretty much require that their “partner” be one too… and … it just makes it really hard for me to try and meet people becasue I worry they won’t accept me after they find out I’m a “heathen” …

Do you all have any experience with that, good or bad?

14

holy reality

To answer your last question: I am a Christian and I am married to a non-Christian. It calls for tolerence and acceptance on both sides. We’re doing alright, and in August we will have been married ten years :smile:

15

hey everyone! thanks for all the support so far
as for an update: I didn’t talk about it this morning because there were other people from the youth group there, and I wasn’t too comfortable talking to him while they were there, so I’ll just call him this afternoon… I’ll let you know how it goes :smile:

UPDATE:
I just called him and talked over everything. I let him know that while my beliefs weren’t the same as his are, the main core of them consist of love and are based on Neale Donald Walsch’s “Conversations with God” trilogy. He said that he couldn’t really understand books that are written that recently (as opposed to the Bible which was written long before Convos w/ God), and I said that for him it would be a little hard to understand and that I know where he’s coming from. I then asked him that I didn’t want the difference in beliefs to cause a rift in our friendship. He said that “the static in our friendship is that you are a homosexual and I’m not, and I don’t feel completely comfortable with the fact that you want to hang out with me”. I told him how I can understand where he is coming from with this, and I assured him that I in now way intend to make him feel uncomfortable. I also said that “You didn’t have any gay friends (other than myself) so you don’t really know what to expect, so you’re basing what I might do off of stereotypes, but please know I’m not trying to make you uncomfortable in any way.” I kind of drew the conversation to a close, thanked him for the conversation we just had, and we both said bye and hung up.

So here’s where I think we are: right now, believe it or not, I don’t think beliefs are the main concern for the rift in our friendship. I think it’s just his not knowing what to expect from me. I mean, we haven’t hung out that much, so he really has no idea what to expect, and instead goes off of societal stereotypes (God I hate stereotypes but hopefully I’ll get him unattached from them). I asked my spirit guide, Joe, to comment on my current situation and give me advice on what to do, and he just said to “be honest, act the way you really act so he KNOWS YOU rather than ASSUMES YOU, and have patience! his beliefs and perceptions about you won’t change overnight, so just keep assuring him you are not trying to “get in his pants” as you would say, and keep acting like your regular self. he will eventually see you for who you are and come to accept it and be better friends than you are right now.”

My spirit guide hit it right on the spot. I really believe that, while the friendship is fragile, if I work at it and continually assure him I’m not looking into an intimate relationship, he’ll come to accept that fact and there won’t be any fragility between us anymore. I just gotta be patient!

Well, needless to say, I feel a lot better than I did before. Thanks so much everyone for the support you’ve given me! Let me know if I can help you with anything.

16

Hey Astare :smile:

I am a Christian and so have my own point of view, obviously, on the situation. I’m wondering if you just went to the wrong kind of group for you and that’s what was the source of your negative experience. Also, Church and church functions can be very odd to someone who has not become used to them. I have been to other churches that have different views than my own and have been like, “Okay, I want to leave. I want to leave now.” So you’re not alone.

I’m going to take some liberty and speak for all Christians when I say this. We have a view and we believe that we’re right. (doesn’t everyone?) However, that does not mean that we have the right to exclude people who don’t believe in the same things we do. We are to love everyone as we love ourselves, regardless if they’re athiest, Mormon, Buddhist, Muslum, etc. Staying away from the Bible, human nature itself also plays a part. We want other people to believe that we’re right. The problem is that some individuals take that too far and that’s where people have a problem.

Ross sounds like a great guy and even if you stop going to his church he should still pay attention to you. I’ve had a lot of non-Christian friends from all religious beliefs and even though I may not have liked what they believe, I still accepted them for who they were and had a lot of fun!

In response to what holy reality said, as a Christian I have done some research into other religions, but my findings show me that my faith is not groundless and is the one I hold to be the truth. The problem with religious arguements is that it’s more than likely that the two+ sides focus on convincing the other so much that they aren’t able to think themselves and so no matter of debate will convince either side. Christians are supposed to be able to give an account for what they believe and I think that those who can’t have not done their faith justice. Sure, I can’t answer any question but I’ve got a fairly good base and a place to go if I need answers.

That’s just my $2.50.

-Amé

17

thanks Amé! I edited my previous post after you posted your message, so there’s news :razz:

I greatly respect your view on your beliefs. You hold them to be true for YOU and you understand that other people have their beliefs, but regardless of those differences, you can find friendship. You definitely know what’s going on in the world and how humans think and I really appreciate that. Thanks for commenting!

18

I agree with that, and I’m wondering if you could briefly explain what made you prefer your religion over others, having studied them.

If it isn’t a complex issue, which I’m assuming it is.

Of the religions I know a little about I am most inclined to prefer Buddhism and JESUS “Christianity” i.e. “real Christianity” i.e. the kind of Christianity that no one at all seems to partake in… i’m not sure that i know more than one “real” Christian by my definition… and I live in the Bible Belt.

I’m sort of a “unitarian” maybe, I just borrow random things, very lazily I might add, and use them to hold temporary “belief” structures… i.e. Jesus’s teachings are great, but I don’t necessarily believe in God, and am skeptical as to whether he performed miracles… and reincarnation makes more sense then living one “random” life then spending the rest of “eternity” paying for how you “chose” to live it.

I guess that could make me Bahai, as I think all religions are just fragments of any real “truth” that might be out there… but I don’t know much about Bahai.

19

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Ame has to say. I was brought up in a very strict (and somewhat narrow-minded way) and it has only been in the last five-ten years that I have started to explore and try to understand other people’s beliefs. I have made a decision to stay with the Christian religion I was brought up with, as there is what I consider a lot of truth in it.

holy reality, I think I know what you mean about people who call themselves Christians, but they continue to act with a disregard of others. Some ‘Christians’ can seem very aloof and arrogant and they use their beliefs as a weapon which is not at all what Jesus taught us. Having said this, I know that I am by no means perfect :grin:

20

Wow, the word ‘cross’ in a Christian groups’ music. Who would have ever thought of such a crazy idea. Maybe its a coincidence that dates back to when Ross was born. Maybe his parents wanted to really name him Cross, but decided it was too strong to name a Christian child that. Much like people think it is too strong to name a child born around Christmas ‘Carol’.

I don’t know what to tell you about the guy. He does seem nice and all, but that isn’t a good enough reason to just throw everything you think is correct, right out the window. Either tell him that you would like his respect when it comes to your views, or leave him alone I suppose.