What is the Dream – Recognition of higher dimensions

the Stuff Dreams are made of...
1

Dream and sleep yoga unravels that the waking state is just another kind of dream similar in nature to the sleeping dream, that consciousness is the makeup of everything, that physical reality is actually inside ourselves and not that we reside inside an external domain which is physical reality. A view that seems to be coming out in the science field as well, most noticeable for me is the work of Robert Lanza of Biocentrisim.
Thus the dream and sleep yoga categorize both experiences as the sleeping dream and the waking dream. The former relating to when we are dreaming and the latter to when we are awake, not sleeping.

There seems to be a very popular point of view in which dreams are considered to be not real, they will say “oh that was just a dream, don’t waste your time thinking about it, its not real”. The supporters of that point of view are under the assumption that REAL means anything that is physical. That is the one conclusion you can arrive to from a reaction such as described above.
Since it is a dream – in your head, does not affect the physical reality (waking dream) it is not real.

Baring in mind that consciousness creates reality, that scientist have proven that physical reality IN FACT is NOT physical at all, that in its most fundamental form, as you go deeper into the atom and its components you get to a point where its just raw energy, the above statement that dreams are not real gets canceled out.

Realizing this, that its all in fact a dream, one may ask what is real?
It stands out that whatever remains real is our experience, it is the one thing we take with us, which remains.
We can only have an experience when conscious.
Real becomes every experience we have, undoubtedly so, we can have very interesting experiences during our sleeping dreams, experiences that remains with us after we wake into the waking dream (the “physical”).
Undeniably though during our time in the sleeping dream we cant always say that we are completely conscious or at least not as conscious as we are in the waking dream. although some may experienced the reverse of having some sleeping dreams which felt more realistic, which means of higher consciousness then the waking dream, mostly by being lucid in the dream.

This leads us into a very interesting point where we have the capability to increase our consciousness in the sleeping dream much easier than the waking dream.
What does that give us and what is actually the sleeping dream’s “build-up” is what will lead to my actual point here.

This is to open up the eyes and look deeper into the potential of lucid dreams. The waking dream, the physical, is a three dimension reality, one can say that in it we are confined by gravity, time and space.
Having those restrictions none existent in the sleeping dream can only show that while there we shift ourselves, boost ourselves to higher dimensions in which we can manipulate and mold this seemingly invisible qualities we experience “without our control” in the waking - physical - three dimension reality.
recently i just thought how it would be to experience life from higher dimensions then the ones we live in - then the whole idea came to me that we already do experience that when dreaming/lucid dreaming. maybe one dimension higher or perhaps an intermediate one between what we know and the next step.

Appreciate it, understand it, explore it, do not take it for granted only because you can naturally reach it each night.

2

I usually don’t respond to posts like this, but I decided to do it anyway.

Energy and matter are closely related to each other and are in fact real things in the physical world. Your statement is absurd and proves nothing. Then you continue to say:

Well can you experience touching a table? Yes? That must be a real table. Can you experience sound and light? Yes again? You are experiencing “raw energy” hitting your ears and eyes, carried by particles that are not visible to you.

I’m not saying that dreams aren’t real (in the sense that you actually experienced it, although it was all in your mind) because they are not physical. Many things that are not physical are real. A story that you hear doesn’t need a physical form to be real. A character in fiction is not real, but can make you feel real emotion.

Why is gravity a dimension? Dimension is the minimum number of coordinates needed to specify any point and it’s relation to another point. Gravity is just a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass and energy. Time and space are dimensions, because they are needed to tell your coordinates. For example, if you want to meet a friend, you have to tell him where (space) and when (time). Also, space has three dimensions in itself. So we live in a four dimensional reality, if you count time.

Nah, I think that because the dream is all in your mind, you can mold it to anything. Your thoughts, beliefs and desires affect it. We don’t need any concepts of higher dimensions.

3

i really forgot to put the final point (i will edit this to the main post) that recently i just thought how it would be to experience life from higher dimensions then the ones we live in - then the whole idea came to me that we already do experience that when dreaming/lucid dreaming. maybe one dimension higher or perhaps an intermediate one between what we know and the next step.

what you said doesnt contradict what i said, maybe i should have explained it better or perhaps you misunderstood.

yes, closely related, the idea is that an atom for example is a physical matter, and you can go and say, yes were all physical since were all made out of atoms, everything is, but when you look deeper into the structure of an atom you reach to a point where theres just raw energy. if you back up again, wouldnt it be the same to say were all made out of energy? that nothing is physical since the basis for all is energy.
do you see what i mean here?

ohh, i didnt mean to say that gravity is a dimension, i can see how it would seem like i did, i just stated that in the physical we live in a three dimension world, aside from that, in it we are “constricted” by gravity, time and space, not that gravity, time and space are the dimensions.
the whole three-four dimensions confused me as i was writing this, yes the three dimensions are width, height, depth (space) and the fourth is time, that made perfect sense to me but i wasnt sure if i was correct since everyone seems to address physical reality as a three dimension reality for some reason (which i guess is a wrong old way of thinking of it). but thanks.

this is practically saying the same things in different ways. this also ties in to what you said about “real”.
its a bit hard for me to explain but i will try my best to put it into words.
yes, of course, you touch a table it is real.
saying its in your mind - your thoughts, beliefs and desires affect it. would be the same as saying you are in a higher dimension state, in it you experience reality in a way where your thoughts, beliefs and desire effect that reality that much more. i say more because can you really say that your thoughts, beliefs and desires do not effect you waking reality? a lot of your physical reality has been thought of and then brought forth into your reality, the desk, chair your sitting on, it all started with a thought. of course you cant create a three eyes monster in physical reality like in the dream reality but that might just be what it means to experience reality from a fourth dimension and from a fifth dimension.
what is to say that physical reality is not in your mind? what happens when you dream? you go inside your head?
it would be easier to explain if you would except that both are a dream, it doesnt sound though your much interested in a spiritual Buddhistic explanation, maybe “biocentrisim” would be more appealing to you since it talks of this in a scientific way.
maybe i should try this another way, you use a word that its own meaning is not yet completely understood, what is the MIND? what is its potential?
the whole idea that when asleep you go “inside” your mind is not as proven as to say that when going to sleep you higher your state of being and experience reality from a fifth or higher then four dimension. the only reason we say you go inside your mind is because it is not physical, if its not physical, well… it cant be HERE in the physical world… so where is it? inside my mind? what does that even mean? a higher more vivid form of imagination? well that would only lead us into investigating what imagination really is. you can give me the explanation of what goes on in the physical body while sleeping, the chemicals released and glands activity and thats a valid explanation of the physical body but if you already agreed that its in “your head” then this suggests youre aware your consciousness is in another “place” while dreaming.

it makes a bit of a complication explaining this, for me at least, as i said. im going to stop here for now and see how you will replay and go from there.

4

I read about biocentrisim and didn’t think much of it. Apparently everything needs to be very carefully defined for you. So, lets start with what is physical:

In order for something to be part of the physical world, it needs to be something outside your mind and made from matter of some kind. That’s it. No need to search what’s in the tiny particles that everything is made of. A table feels physical because the electrons surrounding the atoms repel each other when your hand gets close, due to such a thing as “force”. Because two particles can interact with each other, they form bigger particles and those form bonds and so on. Because they interact with each other, we can experience them with our senses.

And to the next thing that seems to be unclear to you: What is energy?

Energy is a property of objects, particles etc. It never exists without some form of matter. If a particle decays, it might send gamma radiation to some direction and another particle with less energy to other direction. That gamma radiation isn’t pure energy, it’s a photon and still part of the physical world. It can hit your body and your body can absorb the energy. When this happens, bonds between molecules often break. The key in this long sequence of events is that energy is transferred, carried by particles or the bonds between them. Raw energy isn’t actually a thing.

Yes.

No. You are putting words into my mouth. If I say “dreams happen in my mind”, I never mean that I, or my consciousness, leave my body to go to some different “place”. Consciousness is difficult subject. I have to admit that the following is just my understanding of it. Consciousness is “me”. It’s a being experiencing the world. Your brain function is crucial for consciousness and many substances and what not can alter that experience by altering how your brains work. Being in a non-lucid dream can feel like being drunk. Lower awareness, hard to think logically, hard to recall foreign languages or memories. But I still believe you are conscious, even in a non-lucid dream. It’s just a different level of consciousness, lower in this case. In a lucid dream this level rises. They key thing for me is that you need to be conscious on some level to experience anything.

I have gone to bed listening to music and heard it in the dream, so that would suggest that I’m still in my body, right? I can feel my sleeping body etc. Also, I can say that there’s a number eight spinning in my mind right now. I can see it vividly, but my consciousness didn’t have to travel anywhere. In the same way dreams are in our mind without the need to visit some higher dimension.

Also, if physical reality was in your head, then you could alter it like a dream, but you can’t, so it isn’t. If you believe that everything is in your head, then you are alone in that world, since everything is created by your mind, just a figment. Sounds sad. We have reality checks to make sure that the world around us isn’t a dream.

5

Hello dear LD4all members,

I would like to point something to help your healthy discussion.

Sometimes a word can mean things completely different in each context.

It is possible that Awe and Letaali have different conceptions on what is “real” and so on. Maybe both are right depending on their context.

Awe: it’s recommended that you describe what you understand as real first. I think you should read about Ontology and Metaphysics first and identify a way to describe your context before running into arguments.

[spoiler]I guess I should write an example for the LD4all “category of being”:
Think about the Fruits of Lucidity, Dream Journal and the Garden of Creation.
Let’s say that you create art from everything you can imagine.
Then you can put it into the Garden of Creation.

However,
If you imagine something in a dream, maybe you could write it on Fruits or Dream Journal… Some people think you need more than just imagining in a dream, you have to “live it in the dream reality”. Now we have something else to be defined.

In the context of DJ and Fruits, dreams are real entities, and writing something out of a dream could be considered false.

Let’s say that you also keep a diary about your walking life. If you write something from a dream as if it happened during your walking life, it would also be false. Then dreams could be non real entities but they could still exist.

As you can see, it’s context sensitive.

Then we could have discussions about categorizing dreams, for example.
Is dream an existing concept? Is it a process that only exists when something happens, by accident to something, by some intent? (Read about Accident and you could think of dream as an accident of imagination as well) We could categorize these things into groups and define how they can coexist.

When is a dream real? Is it an accident? Can a dream exist without any external entity?

We could relate dream to imagination… When is imagination real? If you can notice how complex and ambiguous these can be, maybe you are ready for another dimension. :peek: Ok, disregard the previous sentence.

(rant over)[/spoiler]

I just want to point that “exist” and “real” can be different “things” and you should point what are you talking about there.

[spoiler]
What’s the “Real World”?

How do you define real?[/spoiler]

Peace, nice people!

6

did i say “leave my body” i dont believe i have. when i meant another place what did you understand from that?
both you and i do not understand consciousness enough to give a proper explanation we can just talk from what we think or experienced. i never said anything about not being in your body, the way i see it its about the amount of attention, thinking while awake is similar to what yoy said about having dreams while still feeling your body or being effected by things going on in the physical but on the other hand you can also have dreams where most of your awareness is in the dream, so these things usually dont effect it.
if you want to talk about it consciousness wise then some dreams you are more conscious in, more focused aware of so your physical environment or your physical body is not “felt”, or you can, although usually this does not happen, be conscious of both. i never said youre leaving your body to go somewhere, nothing shows you cant do both.

this is the exact explanation, closely word to word, i tend to tell people.

this is exactly what i meant when i talked before about reality-experience-consciousness, when i said that the only thing real is the experience and the experience can only happen when one is conscious, which lead to show how amazing is the fact that in the dream we can play with our level of consciousness.

youre taking this to an extreme, it sounds to me that you think what i said as in a hallucination way of it all being in my head, which if you do, this is not what i meant. like i said, doesnt work exactly as a dream, a different kind of a dream, to be honest physical reality is more complex when you take it as a mind created plane of existence, but i see this subject is very irritating to you and i really dont see this as an argument, rather a conversation. im not here to convince you otherwise so ill stop talking about life as a dream and leave you to it.

if you do feel interested and would prefer a scientific explanation which i dont remember all of it to lay it down for you, you can probably find a copy of biocentrisim online. just to be clear, its strictly science, Robert Lanza doesnt talk about life as a dream or tries to prove that it is, he explains his theory of everything using consciousness through quantum mechanics and other science fields, theories and experiments that have been conducted.

i do like that scene from the Matrix tggtt ^^

7

I want to adress the question of what dreams are made of. Without inviting to a argument like the one above, I’d like to tell of a few things that I think is characteristic of the dreamscape:

  1. It’s creativity unleashed: Plots, scenery, music, characters (and more) are unconsciously and (effordlessly?) produced.
  2. Logic works poorly. I’ve seen ppl describing that it’s hard to do math when dreaming.
  3. Time isn’t working. A common RC seems to be to look at a clock.
  4. Lucidness is temporarily.
  5. Control is limited.
  6. Events do not unfold in a exactly linear way. When recalling it seems hard to work out the exact order thing were happening. (I liked a post by WolfTrack, with a circular map for sleep patterns. I wonder if not dreams tend to jump back and forth on tracks like the ones depicted in this post).
  7. There are barriers to be encountered, f.i. Dream Police
  8. Dream characters vary in autonomy and otherness. Some may seem to be external to ourselves, as to be able to offer advice or contrast our thinking.
  9. Dreams can reflect on what we have experienced lately, but they can also tend to things long past, or on things to come.
  10. Dreams can bring forth things from memory.
  11. Relationsships is a big issue in the dreamscape, whether family or friends, companions, or someone you barely know, or someone you would like to meet.
  12. Dreams can be influenced from intentions in the waking state.

These are just some thoughts. Feel free to comment or add points to this list.

8

Dreams are, in a physical sense, inside you but they can be a simile for what is happening in another realm, what you do in a dream describes your choices in that realm. It is a limited view of events in another realm that your mind is not yet big enough to understand in some cases.