Or more simpily, The Winter Solicistic festival would have been a defining fesival in almost any culture no matter what religion or region, Though celebrated in different ways obviously, Because of its Astrological Significance - Which People in those times were quite aware of.
In regards to Jesus’ actual birth date, A theory has been put forward - That The 'Three Wise Men who followed the star from the East ’ - Note In the greek bible ‘Wise Men’ translates more accuratley into ‘Magi’ and Magi - Were ‘Guides’ of the Persian Court. and thus dealed with religion matters and advising kings through astrology and stuff. - Therefore very high up, Very well respected. Could indeed be mistaken for ‘Kings’ rather than Magi because of this and their dress.
But, Astrollogically, The only major astronomical event deterimined around that period - That would associate in the Persian Astrological Tradition Calender to a great Messiah being born. (As the Zoroastrians were also looking for a Messiah, and charted a sign of this as a certain Astrological event)
And So The only certain astrological event that could match up with all the signs the Zoroastrian Magi attributed to the coming of a Messiah - And thus making them go ‘give gifts’ - Was a passing of Jupiter infront of the moon or something like that, I dont remember Lol. But anyway, Something Markedly that fitted in with the criteria, and produced a sign in the sky, Like Jupiter being suddenly clear or in a different position. Etc
So from that they deduced that Jesus must have been born around May/March 4BC. Lol. Yet another theory, But plausible or implausible as any other i guess.
I just read finnished reading about Mithras, a Roman god, who was also born on the 25th of December. Mithraism was also a competitor to early Christianity. Mithras was also said to have had 12 apostles and to have died to redeem man’s sins. However unlike Christianity, Mithraism was a mystery religion - Christianity appealed to a more general audience that Mithraism did, which is probably why it died out a few centuries after Christianity started to spread.
Wikipedia is where I read about it. The article is here. I assume you could find much more detailed info in the sources sighted at the bottom of the article. I’ve also seen some videos which talk about Mithras on the Internet, that’s where I learned about his 12 apostles
Honestly, I have serious doubts if Jesus ever existed (and miracles would be out of the question).
A problem I have is that the first person to actually write anything we still have about Jesus down on paper was the Apostle Paul, who in fact never even met Jesus, and Paul never even actually believed Jesus lived on earth, all the events he describes he sets in a godly world.
The next written acount of Jesus is the gospel of Matthew, which was written about 90 years later, again someone who did not witness Jesus in actual life.
Combine that with the fact that Messianic hero figures are required for (nearly) every religion, and there is not one thing that is acclaimed to have been done by Jesus that has’nt already been done by older religious figures (Perseus, Baldur, King Arthur (I have a full list if anyones interested)).
And the fact that there where actually gospels thrown out of the bible for being too folkloric does suggest that the Bible was never even intented as a religious book but as a moral story.
Hadn’t it been proved already that a guy called Jesus who was a very important political leader really existed? If he was the messiah, alright, that’s up for discussion, but I was pretty sure they had proved the guy existed.
I don’t know. I just heard that too. To me it doesn’t make much of a difference, I’m not Christian myself, so whether he existed as a messiah or a person or even as an allegory, it matters the same: I like the oldschool Christian preachings, the historical meaning of Christianity back to the time of Jesus himself, and that’s as far as it goes for me and Christianity.
Well, I live in Europe, which is practically swarming with beautiful cathedrals and churches, I still love visiting them though.
Even though I don’t believe a word Christianity preaches, I still support the religion, it can help alot of people by giving them something to live for, I’ve never had a really big problem with there being nothing after life, but I can see why someone else would.
It gives people strength, unites them, something which we need desperately here in Europe, everyone is getting obsessed with individualism, but then again, the only thing that could really ‘unite the world’ so to speak is if we got attacked by aliens.
And as far as violent behavior goes, it’s words are the least volatile of the 3 Judeo-based faiths (the bible being the only one that tells it’s followers to turn the other cheek instead of doing unto others as they did onto you).
The early, biblical Christianity had a set of beliefs that would nowadays be considered socialist and avidly repulsed. I’m not saying they were socialists, that would be a hell of an anachronism, nor that what they seemed to believe in was some kind of communism. But did you read the New Testament? Saint Paul’s epistles, Jesus’ preachings; the Revelation book, even! All they wanted is for people to stop this idiocy we understand society, this senseless hierarchical system of oppressors and oppressed. All they were asking was for mutual love.
Jesus couldn’t care less for merit, read his preachings and you’ll see that. You don’t merit more for what you did or who you are—there’s always a chance for redemption, and you would always be redeemed. You could throw the fire of hatred upon these guys, and they would accept you with love. They were against war, against punishment, against a senseless establishment in which some have it granted whilst most will never have it.
If I was to take someone like the apostles, saint Paul or any other of the early Christians as my definition for what a real Christian is, I’d be able to say for sure and with no remorse: there are no real Christians nowadays. Christianity used to be political, revolutionary. They saw a possibility and fought for it a glorious fight: a fight without weapons, but one of words. They were tortured and killed for their beliefs, and even then they wouldn’t succumb to the use of force, and even then they would keep trying to change society once and for all.
Real Christians would not have killed Saddam.
Then again, that’s the view of an atheist and an anarchist on Christianity. If there’s something I’d like to learn from Jesus, have him been a man or the messiah, it would be this. How to bear such renovating, reforming, revolutionary energy with such glorious pacifism. A great man, he was. Perhaps the greatest of us all.
And are you saying that modern christianity is based on opression and power, or finding a niche and staying out of anything important? (not accusing, genuinely interested)
No, I just think it became too individualistic a religion. The organized forms of it seem to me to be too focused in their own liturgy and escathology and too little in changing humankind. The less organized ones look definitely like just “yet another way to make contact with God.” Of course, there’s still charity and there’s a lot of nice stuff religions do. But as I said in the last post, what really fascinates me about Christianity, what I like about it the most, is the early Christians’ will to change the world, the establishment, and the way they preached humbleness and love no matter what. And that, I believe, was lost.
Well, I’ll tell you now that it’s not lost. Not in my experience anyway. At the risk of sounding like i’m trying to “convert” you, I’d like to say that that’s exactly what my church does. That’s why I’m going on a mission. To try to bring the gospel of Christ to others, and better myself in the process. The Jehovas Witnesses is another sect that I think cares about others to actively teach others about their beliefs. Those are two examples I have anyway. Bear in mind that Christianity can no longer be considered one religion. It’s composed of hundreds of denominaions that share a common belief- the atonement of Jesus Christ. I think it’s more of a classification now, and to lump all of these believers into that one definition does not accurately describe them all anymore.
I’m not saying they were socialists, that would be a hell of an anachronism, nor that what they seemed to believe in was some kind of communism. But did you read the New Testament? Saint Paul’s epistles, Jesus’ preachings; the Revelation book, even! All they wanted is for people to stop this idiocy we understand society, this senseless hierarchical system of oppressors and oppressed. All they were asking was for mutual love.