When Jesus was born

Did any of you know that jesus was born around July?? I found this out not to long ago. If you think otherwise post here. Im sure many of you think he was born on December 25.

It is well documentated that the 25th of december was chosen arbitrarily by a pope a few centuries after Jesus’ death… And no one really knows when he was born (provided he existed in the first place, since there’s people still discussing that too). The 12th of July theory (or was it 16th? should check that) has to do with some astronomical event that happened that day which made a star or planet shine more than ever in the past few millenia or something like that (that would match the “guide star” story from the gospels)… A Mathematician from the US argued that according to his calculations, it was actually the 4th, not the 12th of July, but that sounds a bit biased to me. :grin:

There are other theories, though.

Merry Christmas!!!

Something like that is taught in my church. That Christ was born during one of the earlier months. I don’t remember exactly which month we say it was, (although the month you mentioned seems to ring a bell) and it’s not exactly knowledge vital to salvation, but it’s interesting at the very least.


/me wishes everyone an happy christmas :grouphug:
it doesn’t matter when he was born since the christmas spirit can last all year :smile:


Cristmas today hasnt got that much to do bout crist anymore, at least to many :content:

Also, in many countries were it a party around xmas time already, (in norway called jol if i remember right).

So, well, in my view is cristmas a celebration that is good, even if your no cristian :smile:

Christmas origins from Roman celebrations devoted to the god Saturn, There are also connections with Persian god Mitra, which was believed to be born around winter solstice. Apparently Christians “borrowed” those celebrations and changed them in their own way, which of course isn’t anything bas and happened many times.

:yes: The 25th of December was chosen for it was the day of the Saturnalia, Saturn’s Fest. (Saturn = Chronos = god of Time.) In the old Roman empire, Saturnalia was the fest of renewal. The week before the fest was the only week in the year in which slaves had the right to treat their masters as inferiors and be served by them. It was a moment to hope and cherish.

Happy Saturnalia, everyone!


according to the gospel of Luke the time of Jesus birth was in the months when the shepherds were out guarding the sheeps and this was done during the summermonths since it become colder in the end of oktober and the start of november.

jol(Norway) and jul(swedish) comes from the word jólablót or “midwinterblot” that was a heathen party to celebrate
and happened during midwinter when the days where short and the nights long which means it was celbrated around winter solstice.

It is believed that this prechristian celebration of this day was a worship of this state of the day since it was interpreted as nature reawakening

And in Norway and Sweden they gifts are opened on Christmas Eve 24 December.

I think this old celebration is also called Yule.

It is my opinion that modern day Christians have gotten the meaning of Christmas wrong. Early Christians were not celebrating the birth of the new son, but rather the birth of the new sun.

Yes yes, that is an interesting theory, but it would only apply if the old peoples spoke English to make this confusion. :grin: Nevertheless, what you said is also true. The party of Jesus was set at the day of the party of Times—it was chosen by the Romans that his birthday fest would be their celebration of renewal (which is not to be confused with their new year, that was in April if I’m not mistaken, at the party of Spring), and the party of renewal is the party of a new sun to some extent too.

I vaguely remember learning that Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday in ancient times and that the pope adopted it as christ’s birthday for the sake of unity between christians and other religions. I also remember(even more vaguely) reading that Jesus’ actual birthdate was sometime in early March. Or maybe I’m just full of it, I’ll let you decide. :smile:

I think I have lourned that we celebrate it on the 24-des. becouse it was already a light festival on the 24-th in skandinavia so we fused them together.
I don’t know for the rest of the world… :eh:

Oh and scientists think Jesus was born in year -4. :yes:

What do scientists know about religion? :wink:

hehehe, I find it really interesting when science is used in conjunction with religion, rather than trying to disprove it. Religion can’t be disproved, that’s why I’ve always seen it as pointless cause.

it is good to use science to support your religion and embolden your faith rather than wage a war against it.

what would happen if most Christians believed evolution is evidence of creation, rather than that the world is 7000 years old (and most of them don’t believe this! just a small minority!)

science is an effort to understand that which can be, and religion is an effort to understand that which can’t yet be, so pairing the two together makes sense, like how Buddhists do.

and sure Buddhism may be more in line with science than Christianity, but Christianity is about a person, not about how the cosmos works, so I don’t think there needs to be all this anti-intellectualism in the religion.

So, you’re saying that the idea of creation is an effort to understand what can’t yet be? If you ask people what the difference is between science and religion, a lot of people would probably say that science is concerned with the physical universe and religion is concerned with the spiritual universe. However, I think that is a severely limiting position for them both. That means that anything a scientist may discover regarding, say, OOBE’s must be dismissed by the scientific community as a religious belief. And a believer can believe anything they want as long as they don’t think it really happened, like creation for instance.

I think (to a believer,) real difference between science and religion is theory and truth. For instance the Lord can tell us that something is so, and we dont need to find evidence for it. (although, finding evidence can be a powerful second witness) On the other hand, if the Lord has not reveald anything on a subject, then it’s up to us to come up with a theory of how it “may” be; and if this theory is proven wrong by new discoveries, the old theory should be dropped and the new adopted.

As an example, the theory of evolution. We should not mistake theory for fact, and evolution is indeed a theory. This theory does explain many of the things humans have discovered, but there are also many major holes in it that scientists don’t understand- like how an entire forrest can become petrified in hundereds, not millions, of years. If this theory is one day scientifically proven false in light of a better one, it should be dropped.

Well, theoretically there isn’t really a reason beyond faith that a Christian couldn’t believe in evolution. The verses in Genesis 1 can be taken in different ways to discribe different things. The thing is that most Christians believe that life, and expecially man, is more important than that. For me, it would be very difficult to believe in evolution because of my faith that all forms of life have spirits that existed long before the creation. Spirits that are indestinguishable from their physical bodies other than the substances they are made from. And there’s more to it than that as well.

And btw, I don’t think that Christians need to believe that the earth is 7000 years old or whatever. I’ve heard that, during the translation of the Bible into english, the word “day” was mistranslated from a word that is closer to the meaning of “period.” In context, that would mean that the world was created in seven periods of time. The periods could be a day, a week, a thousand years, or longer. I think that makes more sense because it would allow God to beter work with the laws of nature during the process, which He seems to prefer doing. Eg- In Exodus it says about the parting of the Red Sea something like, “And the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night…”

I had read about December 25th being an important date in other Pegan tradtitions…I didn’t know that’s when Saturnalia was celebrated :smile:

Well, according to wikipedia, Saturnalia was orgionally celebrated on the 17th December, and eventually lasted a week until 23rd December.

Saturnalia’s also where we get the custom of giving presents, drinking and eating alot and wearing funny hats.

So basically a good knees up. :smile:

That and St. Nicholas, who gave money to the father who was about to sell his daughters; after all, the Fest of Presents was initially not related to Christmas, but rather celebrated in the 6th of December—St Nicholas’ day. :wink:

In case this has not already been mentioned here, I read somewhere that the 25th of December also bears a resemblence to the “Birthdays” of other pagan gods in ancient countries. I don´t exactly know which Gods, but I think the Egyptian Sun God was one of them (not the only thing Christians took over from Egyptian religion btw) and tehre were others from greek and I think Roman tradition as well… Saturn who has been mentioned already… yeah, I think he was one of the 25th of December birthday Gods, too.
So, I see it the way that the date (for lack of true evidence or sources to place the real date back in the 4th (?) century when many details of Christian belief were put down) was chosen symbolically in order to undermine the deity of Christ.