Why are they lying?

I don’t know if such a topic already exists, but have you ever wondered why dream characters are always saying you’re not dreaming when you tell them you are?

I mean, it’s probably our subconscious that wants us to prevent from lucid dreaming… but why?

And if it’s so, those of you who are skilled lucud dreamers: Are they still telling you you’re not dreaming, or does that go away as soon as you are able to control your dreams and lucidity?

I’ve wondered about this myself. All the times I’ve been lucid, I never once told someone I was dreaming. So I don’t know what they’d say yet - I haven’t tried. But who says they’d have to deny it? In fact, I can vaguely recall reading a few examples where dream character agreed the dreamers were dreaming - Wolf springs to mind here (assuming I’m remembering correctly; it was a couple of years ago I read this).

But if you think of dream characters as real people (which I always do - I can’t bear to think of them as imaginary things; it’s so disrespectful), then it makes sense logically that they’d deny it. If your subconscious is treating them as real people, then it follows that most real people (except the ones with a sense of humour that extends to complete strangers) would deny you were dreaming. If you went up to someone in reality and said you were dreaming, the natural response of most people would be to deny it, because obviously it’s reality. If you assume that the dream characters act like real people and don’t know they’re in a dream, then it makes perfect sense for them to deny it.

As stormthunder wrote before me, our subconscious doesn’t “care” wether we are lucid or not. It is simply that you do not expect them to answer you with a “yes”. When was the last time you went to someone and they told you it was a dream?

Now really, if you go to any person on earth and ask them “Is this a dream?” They will either say “I have no idea” or the more frequent “no”

(A fine way to bypass that is to ask close people to always tell you you are dreaming, causing you to question reality when awake (and asleep))

(I once had a dream in which every DC knew was a dream. They were even making RCs to become lucid)

I agree, it is a bit strange. Last night my brother laughed at me when he saw me doing a nose RC in a dream, which prevented me from becoming lucid. But once I actually become lucid, all the DCs seem to disappear so I don’t have the exact same problem as you…

That’s actually a very good question. However I think it is probably the case that you expect them to say you aren’t dreaming.

If you tell a “normal person” IWL that it’s a dream they’ll just say you’re crazy. If you tell a LD’er they might do a RC. So I think that your mind is representing the “normal people”. :tongue: The ones that are 100% sure they are awake.

I sometimes ask my mother if she’s dreaming (IWL) and she just says “nope”. I’m like “I’ve told you! you have to do a RC! You can’t really tell!!”

Anyway, I’ve told DC’s I’m dreaming and have got a curious “really!?” and a sarcastic “really!?” :happy:

That’s not true. I can tell I’m awake right now without having to check, because my head’s clear. In dreams you can have this vague haziness which means you can’t think clearly, so you can’t always be sure. But in real life, I don’t have to check! I would be one of those people who insist that this is reality, not a dream, if you asked.

The fact is that you don’t NOTICE any haziness, not that it doesn’t exist. If you look a moment back, you might find that haziness.

Yeah, DC’s haven’t always denied it. I once told a DC that they were no more than a DC and she looked sad. On another occasion, I asked my DC mother if I was dreaming and she gave me an enthusiastic nod. Of course, I’ve had some naysayers like my DC sister who continued to deny that I was dreaming no matter how much I tried to convince her otherwise: I even stuck my finger through my hand and she said, “Oh, that happens to me sometimes.” :wallhit:

I had an LD last night and decided to be a little silly. I ran around, telling random DCs that this was all a dream. Most ignored me, a few just laughed. A lot of them didn’t believe me. But a few were like “Yeah! Welcome to the party!” :tongue:

(EDIT: o.0 Post got moved by mods. Hope this post makes sense in context)

I had an LD last night, and I asked 3 people “Is this a dream?”

My friend - pause…“Yeah!” very excitedly
His mom - “No”
An employee at Best Buy - “Yep”

This is the first time I ever asked DC if it was a dream, just thought I would give my 2 cents.

I actually developed a few theories about this myself:

  1. If they are real people (or “real” people, that is characters in a parallel world and not created by your mind, whatever that means), it’s indeed kind of natural for them to react like people IRL.

I don’t know if you’re familiar with the movie “open your eyes”, (or the Hollywood-remake “vanilla sky”), but there is this scene (spoiler!) where the protagonist is told that his real life has been replaced by an everlasting dream, and that the DCs will naturally deny it.
Then there’s this other guy (his friend?). who, accused of being a dream character, says things like “No, how can you say something like that, I’m real, look at me, of course I’m real…” and so on, and he’s so desperate that you feel sorry for him.

But if they feel like independent persons in the dream world, they have to be familiar with dream actions (like Sonia said, her DC sister sticks her finger through her hand if she feels like doing it).

I’ve got a quite different example: I’m still on my pathway to lucidity, and the last time I was pre-lucid (that is, I knew I was dreaming, but I wasn’t lucid in the sense of clear-sighted and mentally super-awake) I wanted to tease the sceptical DCs by performing some tricks, like letting my keys fly through the air, and you should have seen the expression on their faces! It was like I caught them, they couldn’t deny it anymore, but as if they weren’t allowed to admit it. They just had nothing to respond to that, and I was like “Ha!”

Now I can hear you all protesting and telling me about cooperative DCs who flew through the air with you or encouraged you to continue your stay. But what if they risked their lives by doing that, huh?

‘Cause maybe we’re the evil intruders from another world, and they are subjected to a totalitarian system which teaches them to do as much as they can to prevent foreigners from “using” or exploring their territory. And those who contradict could be the pacifists who are just scared of the consequences, while the activists are those monsters and nightmare-causers who are chasing you…

I’d like to hear your opinions on that one, but please don’t use the word “paranoia” :peek:

Anyway, confidence seems to be the only thing that can get you somewhere in the dream world (like IRL?)… which leads me to my second point:

  1. It would just be too easy without the mind’s
    resistance. I mean, in this case it doesn’t count whether dreams are only made of your mind or not – the laws of the universe and the concept of Yin&Yang teach us that nothing good comes easily, and everything has at least two different sides.
    So lucid dreams are a wonderful thing, aren’t they? Maybe your mind does anything to prevent you from having them, including all kinds of mental barriers…
    Okay, what about those skilled people who have LDs without asking for them?
    I don’t know… maybe I’m just too cynical…

maybe you can try to influence them. I mean in a LD you have the control and you can shout to them “TELL ME THE TRUTH, DO I DREAMING OR DONT I” And you must conccentrate that they tell you the truth. But I also read that DC dont know that they are DC´s. Some people explain it to them and then they got clear. I dont know because i dont had a long LD with DC yet.^^

Perhaps the DC’s (some of them) deny that you are dreaming because that would mean to them that they really don’t exist, they don’t want to question they’re reality because in their subconscious they know that they are not real and that questioning reality could be the death of them.
those who don’t deny it might be other people, the real kind, who are in the same dream scape as you.

Hope it’s not too confusing to read :wink:

And about sticking a finger through my hand, I do that all the time too, I’ve drilled a special hole in my left palm just so I could stick my finger through it. :content:

I’ve been working on theories similar to this train of thought. I’ve definitely stumbled into places that I shouldn’t have been. City’s and civilizations of people. One time two DC’s just straight up told me that I didn’t belong there at that time, and I asked to stay, and they asked if I could go two seconds without asking a question. I said, “but what if I…?” and then poof I was sent away. Another example; I was taken 300 years into the future by a guide and had a positive interaction with a DC, and then was exploring. Once the other DC’s found out I was a dreamer they tried to keep me from observing their reality, and called the dream police on me, luckily my guide distracted them as I got away.

I now tend to refrain from asking questions of DC’s, and if I am really lucid I try not to give any indication that I am. I do this because I feel that on some level there is a code of conduct amongst those that we come across in the dream world. Some knowledge is intentionally (I believe for a rightful reason beyond my ability to understand) restricted. I mean the last thing the universe would want is for human kind to obtain un-objectable proof that there is more to everything that meets the eye. (especially before we are ready) It would kinda take away the fun of the experiment if the mouse believed it was being observed. So I just try and play it cool and act like I don’t notice everything that is happening around me.

But all in all it varies from time to time. I’ve had some really great interactions with dreamlands \ dream characters \ dream animals. I think it is just finding a way to make peace with the environments you come across and realizing that the traditional forms of communication that we are used to IWL don’t generally apply so well within the dreamworld.

No other thoughts here about our stay in the dream world not being wanted?

a few nights ago i dreamed i was at a local skatepark and a friend of mine was there. I noticed he was smoking a cigarette, which he would NEVER be doing IWL. I walked up and said “D, you dont smoke…” and he raised the cigarette to me and said “Congrats you found out your dreaming” and smiled. :eek: I was only lucid for a few seconds before waking up :grrr: