WILD isn't working

I can get relaxed I think and sort of get deeper into an almost sleep but what happens sometimes is that I just fall asleep before I can get anywhere if I’m too tired and in those cases if i keep telling myself something like “i am in a dream” i never fall asleep.

Something else weird happens and that is that when I get really relaxed and in the “transition” state (or so i think) my heart starts pounding really hard, is that normal?

I also only see random flashes of light when i look into the hypnotic imagery, I have never once seen anything that looked like an object except if I was daydreaming, and then it looked like something in a day dream which is disappointing.

I also have never seen colors in my hypnotic imagery

Is all this normal or what should I do?

Hi again Lex! :wink: And welcome to the forum! :wave:

I’ll try to answer your questions the best I can… :content:

There are two kinds of people: those who fall asleep too quickly and those who don’t fall asleep. IMO, the first should use a “mental” method which involve focusing on thoughts (like counting, repeating a “mantra”, etc.); the second should focus on “physical” sensations (like falling through their bed).

I never have had this feeling, but it seems to be normal. A lot of WILD’ers notice it. Someone more experienced than I am (as I told you, I never managed to do a WILD) could give a better reply… :bored:

Flashes or dots? Fuzzy bright dots are called phosphenes. You see them immediatly when closing you eyes. Sudden white flashes are said to be phosphenes too, but it seems that you must be quite asleep to see them.
HI are sudden images (lanscapes, faces, etc.) which look very real and appear in front of your eyes. They generally disappear as soon as you notice them.

As it seems you never reached the HI phase (not a problem though, some people say they never have HI), what you’ve seen are probably phosphenes. They are not very coloured when you go to sleep. But when you practice WBTB, you can see coloured and more textured phosphenes. It’s often very pretty.

Yes. :content:

The advice id generally given to WILD beginners that they should try WILD together with WBTB. It’s far easier. When they can WILD, they can try it when going to bed. Moreover, Paul Tholey (a german LD’er and psychologist) thought that WILD was easier for people who 1) fall asleep quickly 2) naturally have hypnagogic hallucinations (sounds, vibrations, images when they fall asleep). So, if you never have had a LD, and absolutely want to experience it, I would give the advice to go on WILD’ing during a month, and if you see you’re going no very far with it, try the DILD’s methods (RC’s, autosuggestion, MILD, finding your hands in a dream, etc.)

But it’s only my opinion. I hope your message will be seen by experienced WILD’ers, and they will answer better than I can!

Good luck in your further WILD attempts! :smile:

Also, out of curiousity - how long have you been trying this?

like 5 days

…it took me 3 months for WILD to work… and only then it only really works for me in the mourning…

Well, well, well… I’m beginning to doubt all I’ve thought about WILD. This morning I tried WBTB + WILD. First, I flipped over on my back hoping to fall into SP, but to no avail. I listened to my hemi-sync for 30 minutes: nothing. I realized my stomach was seriously empty, I had to go to the bathroom, it was very loud out, etc. I got up, went to the bathroom, grabbed a protein bar from my shelf, ate it and drank some water, stuffed some earplugs in my ears, and lied on my back again. Nothing. I could not fall asleep. :sad: I definitely saw HI though, but whenever I did I’d get too excited and be like “Sweet, I’m falling asleep…” Eventually I gave up, plugged the window with cardboard, turned on my side, and fell asleep. No WILD for me this morning. :sad: However!! Come to think of it there were times when I’d be sleeping and I was totally immersed in a dream and I’d realize I was dreaming but IMMEDIATELY was awake. It sucks. :sad: I won’t count those as LD’s anymore.

lexman908: Keep at it. :smile: I thought I was a good wilder (check my sig) but now I don’t know if I know what WILD really means, so I might have to reset my counter!! My problem is I always fall asleep, realize I’m dreaming (DILD) and then wake up experiencing everything everyone has described while WILD-ing; SP, sounds, vibrations, tossing and turning sensations, etc.

So Basilus, my question to you is: Does that count as a WILD? If I WBTB + WILD but fall asleep and instead DILD but wake up ASAP and experience WILD-like stuff? (Ahehehe, pardon all the acronymns, eh?) If not, I’m gonna have to reset my WILD counter!!!

Also, how loooong should it take for me to enter a WILD dream? I know, I know, it depends on the person, but I shouldn’t be awake for 2.5 hours, should I?! Cos I was this morning!!! I finally fell asleep at 8:30 (after getting up at 6:00) and dreamt until 11:00. :confused: I’ll have to wait until I get 12 dreams in my journal (I’m starting a physical journal) so I can do all those exercises LaBerge has for me in store so I can move to the next chapter.

I just bought EWLD off eBay last night. Having it for two weeks from the library isn’t gonna be enough.

We’re in the same boat :smile:
I experience the pounding heartbeat also, and usually it subsides quickly. The problem is once it subsides I get very uncomfortable, like my muscles are all tense, then I give up. I suppose I shouldn’t give up so easily.
My hypagogic imagery is also pretty monochromatic, usually blues and greens and yellows blending into each other.
I can’t seem to fall alseep from counting or mantras or anything, it’s like it wakes me up, then I can’t get to sleep. I like to focus on the body sensations but then that uncomfortable feeling happens. I guess I’ll just try to stick with it more.
Oh also, I seem to come closer to an actual WILD when I do it in the morning, because you hit REM faster than when you first go to bed.
Hope that brings you some perspective :smile:

Yeah, in the morning is really good for WILD because you’re much more relaxed and like Josh Redstone said, you can get back into REM in no time.

Come to think of it, is HI like actually in front of your eyes as if you were looking at something? To me I always thought it was in your minds eye. I’m so confused now. I should relearn everything. :confused:

Last night I had flashes of HI mixed amongst the phsophenes. The weird thing was even though I couldn’t make out what the images were right away, I new or had this weird feeling that they were upside down!! It was very weird to describe. They flashed very bright and with it a wave of excitement and confusion that they were upside down…

I dunno. I just don’t know now. Should my HI be as vivid as like a movie?

Since you experience sight with your visual courtex, no matter what, you see everything with your mind’s eye.
HI is really in your mind but it looks as though it’s in front of your eye, as would a dream, hallucination or real visual stimuli :tongue:

I agree that WILD is much easier if you’ve already spent some time in REM sleep. It’s virtually impossible (for me anyway) to have a WILD when first going to sleep at night. If you stick with this method (WBTB) and don’t try hard you will eventually master it. If it’s keeping you awake for hours, it’s best to just give up and try again the following night. When I was first attempting this method and getting no results I decided to stop trying to enter a dream and just get used to exploring HI. This seemed to take the pressure off and I very quickly had an amazing WILD . I still haven’t reached the point where I can have them every night, but I can have two or three a week now. It definately gets much easier once you have had a few successes and just seems to start happening naturally.
It can take some time but it’s worth sticking with it as it’s a really cool way to become lucid. Good luck.

It depends. During WILD, when they try to fall asleep consciouly, some people loose consciousness during the HI stage for what they feel to be some seconds (though it’s difficult to know how long it has really lasted) before they realize they are dreaming. It’s very common and it counts as a WILD. But if you WILD, fall asleep, then some hours later, become aware in a dream, that’s a DILD.

If you wait for hours, you just give you a big chance to experience insomnia… I don’t think you should try more than 45 minutes. That’s why it’s better, especially for WILD beginners, to try WILD’ing after a WBTB.

I think there are two ways of experiencing mental images: as the “thinker” (probably what you call the “with the mind’s eyes”). So, they are rather vague, like you’re imagining something. Or as they were external, so they appear like they were real, in front of your eyes. That’s the same thing with auditive thoughts. They can be like you’re thinking something, or you can hear a external voice. Generally speaking, HH and HI are called hallucinations because they seems to be external and random (like they are independant of your will and thought). But it’s not a real problem indeed, some WILD’ers say they never experience HH, probably because they focus on another thing, like counting or false body sensations. So you’re HI shouldn’t be as vivid as a movie, cause it’s not really important.

Basilus: Thanks for the great answers, as usual!!! Last night however, I finally experienced a flow blown WILD. I finally KNOW what I should be expecting. I’ll write a new entry in my Dream Data (check the sig) and you guys can read it. It was a record 2 minutes+, shattering my old 10 second record, and it’s my second LD (two nights in a row!)

I find that WILD is an elusive goal. I have very vivid HI when I fall asleep at night. However, that never seems to materialize into a full-blown dream. But then when I wake in the early morning hours, I try to WILD, but I end up falling asleep so quickly, I blow past any HI that might occur. I’ve tried counting, tapping my fingers, but falling asleep just seems to happen too fast – even if I get up to use the bathroom.