Edited: The number 7 biblically represents the completeness deriving from God, also.
Jeff, DM7 or anyone else who has done this.
One question that I have about your technique is that if I try to relax at all in a LD I seem to wake up. How do you prevent this when you use hypnosis in a LD. I am planing to experiment with your technique of letting your brain go I believe is the way you put it. Though I am not exactly sure what you mean by that. I understand that you do not want to give away too much information so you can tell if people are telling the truth about there experience. But can you give a little more of a taste of what it is like so I have more of an idea what to expect. I mean my first near WILD scared me out of it because I did not know what to expect. Once I knew what to expect WILD became much easier.
Thanks Milod for getting this more on topic. 
Hopefully we can keep it on topic and get more information on this deeper state.
Was gonna reply here but I’m going to wait until the religious discussion goes away again.
Ureon
The religious discussion has been gone for quite some time. Last one was Thu Oct 16, 2003 10:04 am.
I think you should feel free to post your experiences. I am really interested in resurrecting the original topic. If people turn it into a religious topic again, all we have to do is ignore those posts.
Last night I tried to do meditation in a LD.
I went to bed and did WILD. Unfortunately, this time I failed and fell asleep. The next thing I remember I was standing on a street with some people when I just realized that I was dreaming. I jumped in the air and started flying around. Then, I remembered that I wanted try meditation in my dreams so I landed an the beach right below me. I sat down and started to just focus on my breathing and I started to relax. Anyway, I became disconnected from the dream so I don’t really remember what happened but, the next thing I remember was that I woke up. Unfortunately, it was not a FA.
This happens every time I try meditation or self hypnosis in my LD’s. I loose the dream and wake up. I would appreciate any input as to what am I doing wrong.
WOW!
A lot of intresting stuff here, I haven’t yet seen the first part of this, but someone said something about inducing a LD while not sleeping through meditation…I don’t know about meditation, but I have done this once, it was a long time ago and I can’t remember many details, so don’t ask me to do it again, but from experiance I can say that this can be achieved.
mystery
Jeff (i’m hoping you still post here)
would this be an NDE? Because I’ve never experienced anything that makes me believe in Astral Projection, so I thought THIS, this must be astral projection, and yet it has the falling and tunnel characteristics of NDE…
I am on the fence about OBEs (into the physical) i think i might have had one or two, I need to be able to successfully trance meditate to really explore this stuff…
And I just keep failing at it… but here is the experience.
[color=green]
Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 7:17 am Post subject:
I just had a pretty damn crazy astral experience!!!
okay i was drifting off into sleep (trying to wild I suppose) i had an army dream, some drill seargeant, some sort of pipe he had, I was on an island, he was like “okay you are free to have fun, but by have fun I don’t mean napping!” and I was like “well hey dreaming isn’t necessarily napping”
then somehow i sort of half woke and then I was going down this hallway, this pale purple hallway, there were all these paintings everywhere, I was hearing harp music like you hear in cliched angel scenes, and I somehow knew that these paintings that were all about the walls in this tunnel, they were dreams, perhaps dreams that I have had… my heart chakra was going insane, it felt like I was having a heart attack, but I stayed inside anyway, I was going deeper and deeper, and it started slanting downwaird, then I saw in my right eye a beautiful purplish spiral appear and I found that I could reach out and touch it, and then I was in the right side, and there were beings floating arond, but I was so helpless, I couldn’t move… but I could see my astral hands, t hey were a purplish color…
and some being, he came towards me, and I was a bit scared but he looked harmless, a purplish hue like the rest of us, and I was trying to talk to him, I was like “hey, who are you?” and I could hear speech coming from all around, but it was fragmented, he came to me, and I wasn’t sure what to do, but I let him come, and he touched me, and then, I started feeling him touching me, I think he was trying to help me out, but then I started to wake up, and as I did I could clearly see his face.
He was some guy, with sideburns, he looked very friendly, happy…
Wow…
What a trip…
hehehe I’m not tired at all but I want to go back to bed and DO THIS AGAIN!!!~!
wooo… maybe this changes my whole outlook on spirits and astral travel, man, that was so trippy… whoa…[/color]
The feeling I got in the tunnel was of a perpetual falling motion and at a certain depth I stopped and had to actually “make” myself go deeper… the beings were visible outside the tunnel from the beginning but I didn’t pay much attention to them until I saw the spiral in my “right eye”
I’ve heard something related to shamanism that the left eye is used for remote viewing (or something?) and the right eye is used for something else, depending upon what stage of “development” you are in… but I haven’t really been able to find anything in depth on this.
Véry powerful experience you had, holy reality! 
I’m not going to argue whether or not this was a NDE, because I really don’t have a clue. Jeff will probably know it 
You say you got this falling sensation upon falling back asleep again? There’s an ancient tantric text (Vigyan Bhairav Tantra) in which the 55th technique goes like this:
At the point of sleep,
When the sleep has not yet come
And the external wakefulness vanishes,
At this point Being is revealed.
Apparently the exact boundary between awake and asleep is marked by a gap. It takes many years of practice to experience this gap consciously. But sometimes, while walking on the road towards Dreamland, you step right in it and you fall down. While falling in this gap, you’re not asleep nor awake. In this realm, you may get to see your true Face, and perhaps even have profound encounters with spiritual beings. Your description has a stunning similarity with this ancient technique. I’ve posted on this before. Check this out for a detailed description (it’s written by Osho, a famous Hindu mystic): totallyok.com/secret/055m.htm
About the link with shamanism… I’m sure I’ve read about that too somewhere. There was also something about the shifting of the Central Point of Consciousness, which results in experiencing different realms of perception and shamanic wisdom.
Extremely interesting topic!
Okay, how about this: The one time I had a Lucid dream last week was when I had woken up in the middle of the night because I had rolled on my back (I had a REALLY bad sunburn, 2nd degree burn, skin is still peeling off). So when I went back to sleep I decided to try the focus thing and I found that I was able to focus on one “layer” of the visuals I saw when I closed my eyes. I can’t describe it any better, but what I remember was it felt like I was trying to focus a camera lens on one thing I was seeing in my field of vision when my eyes were closed. I wasn’t focusing my mind, I was focusing my “vision”. Then what happened was I started flying through these colored auroras that were flaring before me, then I found myself knee deep in water in a brick room and i was lucid.
What was with the vision thing, and how can I do it again? Is that what you all are talking about when you’re talking about NREM visuals?
Jeff has not posted here (or anywhere) in quite some time. Dm7 has been pretty silent as well. I am hoping to entice them all back.
Anyway, I tried meditation in a LD again last night with the same results as above. I am going to have to keep practicing. Tonight I might try self-hypnosis in my LD and see what happens.
seriously!! i pitey all the people who havn’t had LD or OBE or even believe in them…they realy miss out on quite alot…personally i’ve only known about LD and such for a couple of months, and i have had like 10 LDs and no OBE or anything of that sort, i still have quite bad controll over my LDs, but it gets better…i hope 
looking forward to OBEs as well, and hopefully in the future: get even deepr then that, to NDE and the stuff you talk about here…
Ok. Last night I tried to meditate in a LD again. This is going to sound really weird but, I felt the dreaming fading. I did not want to move or anything so I could not rub my hands together or spin as I was trying to meditate. Anyway, I just sort of willed the dream back and for a moment it did come back. But then something happened ( I don’t know what) and I found my self awake.
I am going to keep trying and next week I am going to try self hypnosis if I do not get anywhere with meditation.
milod, i’m a bit confused 
so you’re trying to meditate in an LD and then find that your dream fades… doesn’t that mean you were successful??? i thought the point of meditation (quiet meditation anyway) was to take your focus off the external world (or the dream world in your case) and cause it to disappear… so… aren’t you succeeding in a way???
Well yes and no. The problem that I am having is when I loose the dream I wake up. However, you may have figured out what I am doing wrong. Perhaps I have to just let the dream go. It might be my efforts to hold on to the dream that causes me to wake up. Next time I will just let it go and see what happens.
Thanks
Happy Dreaming
In my experience, there’s nothing wrong with working to keep myself in the dream, as long as I go about it the right way. I have to focus on things in the dream world, keep my attention on them through sight or touch.
It’s when I stop paying attention to the dream world or I get too inner-monologuey that the dream begins to fade out. Keeping calm also helps me stay in the dream, since I sometimes wake up if I am not breathing normally or if my heart rate is too fast.
Well that is actually the problem. When you meditate you become disconnected from your surroundings. When I do this in a LD I wake up. Many people have talked about doing meditation in a LD which takes you to and even deeper level of consciousness. Then jeff talks about a level even deeper than that where you have can safely (I hope 
) have a NDE. Both jeff and Dm7 report doing this and have found it to be an amazing experience.
Anyway no LD’s last night at all so there is nothing new to report on this experiment. Hopefully, I will get a chance tonight.
sorry i’m so late in responding, a lot’s been going on
anyway, i forgot where i read this (and as always, someone correct me if i’m wrong), but i read it somewhere that the tibetan dream yogis viewed lucid dreaming as a more sensible way of going about meditation.
the premise is that in meditation you are trying to achieve a state where your mind is awake and your body is asleep. and the dream yogis felt that it was easier to achieve that state from a dream (where your body is already asleep and what’s needed is to wake up your mind) than the other way around
this idea made lucid dreaming appealing to me, because i’m pretty terrible at quiet meditation (my mind won’t shut up) so that sounded like a good solution for people like me
anyway, you want to meditate in a dream so you can get an NDE ??? couldn’t you just walk through a mirror and say “on the other side will be the astral plane” (personally i believe that sometimes the dream plane and astral planes overlap, but it’s just an inkling, don’t have anything to back it up)
there’s a book on OBEs that i highly recommend Out-of-body Experiences: How to have them and what to Expect by robert peterson. he says that an LD is the easiest place to get an OBE from (which is what got me interested in LDing to begin w/ 'cause i wasn’t have any success with other techniques of getting an OBE)
anyway, i’ve only done it twice and not recently, i should really try again in my next LD. but there were two times that i became lucid, and remembered that i wanted to try to OBE, so i bellyflopped onto the ground and rose up into my physical body (a really cool experience, kinda hard to describe) anyway, i ended up in my sleep paralyized physical body with HEAVY vibrations going on. the vibrations were kinda scary… (well… not really scary, but i’m too tired to think of a better word) i tried to ignore them and wiggle out of my physical body, but i eventually fell back into an ND both times.
anyway, hope this post was helpful… if not, at least it kept me awake for 15 minutes (i’m at my graveyard shift at the computer lab i work at right now) 
You can get to the astral plane through LD’s? COOL!! 