i just cant tell the difference, they both could just be te same thing, i have read all the things that tell me otherewise, but i just dont get it, can someone tell me please?
No they are not the same thing. In a lucid dream you are dreaming, and concious inside your dream. It is possible to have dreams about astral projecting, but they are not the same thing.
Often from sleep paralysis I ‘pull myself out of my body’ but those are lucid dreams.
When I am concious and then astral project it is different. LD is in your own conciousness. AP is outside of your body. You project your conciousness out of your own body into the astral plane.
They are different, most people only think they are the same because they have an AP dream and then asume AP isn’t possible.
So to clarify.
LD, and AP dream - In your head
AP - Out of your body
Well, both require you to be sleeping (right?)… if you want to AP you should be focusing on seeing through your eyelids, with your eyelids closed lightly and not forced. If you were Lucid Dreaming by WILD then you will look at your eyelids but not focus on seeing through them but rather any images that will appear.
Is it possible to see past your eyelids?
Not quite. Yes your body falls asleep to some degree, but in a lucid dream you are in REM sleep. I can astral project simply from trance state.
You can astral project?
Oh wow… how old are you anyway Kit?
I have to agree with Kit.
AP is something done while awake, possibly in a meditative or trance like state, but still awake.
Yes I can Astral Project. What does age have to do with matters of the mind and soul?
I am sixteen.
Well, if you were in your 30’s for example it might suggest you have had alot more time for experience… that is all!
Anyway, Kit… i’ve tried AP before. I lay there trying to see my fingers through my eyelids and it’s almost as if I can but it doesn’t get very clear… how long do you need to sit there focusing for? Should I have the light on?
Astral Projection is associated with Theosophy which has a theory of 7 different layers of reality each one of which is more subtle.
A more neutral term is Out of Body Experience (OBE).
Some OBE’s are supposed to happen in the physical world allowing you to go to other places and see things in consensual reality. Some OBE’s are described as occuring in mental realms or other dimensions.
There are arguments about whether OBE’s are really a form of WILD. So far scientific experiments have not shown conclusively that OBE occurs in physical dimension. People doing OBE see things that don’t exist in physical world, and don’t accurately describe some things.
However there many cultures that have described OBE’s for thousands of years, so it may be just wrong scientific experiments so far.
(Tibetan Buddhists discovered LDs more than 1000 years before Western science proved they were real)
yes.
if we think about ancient OBEs, most people had very stable environments, they know there is this mountain
so if they traveled to the mountain they see it, then they are like “oh yes i saw physical reality” but now our current reality is changing every second because someone puts a water bottle on the ground or something is demolished
so the idea is there is the etheric plane, which is close to the physical, but only picks up what has strong energy there, such as if a coffee cup has been sitting on the street for weeks you might see it in the etheric plane, but maybe not
there is no way to know for sure but if you think about it, it would be harder for people in ancient cultures to disprove OBE because when they look around physical reality, it is a reality so stable that it will hardly ever change unless they go and visit cities.
hmm, i usually dont have my light on. Have you ever tried meditating before attempting an AP? I can have AP’s no prob and it happens pretty fast. I usually focus for about 15-30 mins and then feel my astral body coming out
yes but how do we know that its another dimension, how do we know its not another form of lucid dreaming?
The big unanswered questions… probably won’t be answered because there is no way to test it.
I think some test are possible. And we know from LD’s that an experience can seem incredibly realistic, so we can’t just assume.
One test is to get a deck of cards. And without looking at it, place a card face up on top of a bookshelf where you can’t see it. When you OBE, go view the card.
Another test is to leave a book open. When you OBE, note the page number, read some text. Look away. Re-read the text. Then when you are back in your body, compare the text you read, with what you remember reading.
The scientist use other ‘double-blind’ tests. But the above should be enough to confirm for yourself if you are OBE, or WILDing.
I leave the light on, or the TV on. It took weeks of practicing, so I just did it in my spare time. While someone else was driving I’d try and see around me, and after a lot of practice it finally came to me.
After I did it the first time it only takes me a couple of minutes to reach that level now. It works really well with movies you know word for word. Turn the lights off and close your eyes, but look at the TV as the movie is playing. Its much easier to see then a book.
that would require an etheric (sp?) projection where you project the the plane closest to the physical plane. in the Astral planes we would not be able to see physical things
He said OBE not astral projection.
And I’ve AP’ed and not gone onto the astral plane. Instead just been projected to my house. And I know it is real because I walked around and checked what everyone was doing, then when I returned to my body I got up and looked.
It was just like I had seen.
I’m telling you all. A LD and a AP are two different things.
And dont tell me it isnt an AP because I am not in the astral plane, you’re getting technical on me. I’ve been on the astral plane as well.
Also you can see things that are on the physical plane while in the astral plane. But there will also be added things, things that left energy imprints.
v-j-enterprises.com/rbastral.html
Read. Stop asking questions unless they are not answered here.
I use his techniques, I’m reading his book. They work, I find them creditable.
Kinda off topic, but I often see through my eye lids when WILDing right before I enter a LD, though I can clearly reconize a change from when I’m seeing through my eyelids to a dream state… however I’m just wondering, is this due to some kind of spiritual conciousness before a dream? can I take advantage of this to OBE or AP? I haven’t read much on it but I can easily reach this ‘seeing through eye lids’ state and what not.
Regards,
Zak
If your body is physically asleep, and mind is awake, yes you can AP or OBE.