i agree with timeless,
even i , a psi believer, am not a 100% believer
how can you believe anything 100%???
we should never say it does or doesn’t exist…
personally i don’t really care that i’m not able to ‘convert’ some of you
sorry, but i just don’t have any hard evidence for you
all i can say is try it for yourself, don’t just dismiss it as bullsdhit
but if you’re interested in checking out scientific experiments on psi…
check out that book we mentioned before!!!
you won’t regret it! 
You will regret it if you belive that the science is portraying correct results… its not! The science was flawed which is a s real shame as the Russians in my mind definately had some great psi stars who were really demonstrating psi. As I’ve said the only water tight science is the Princeton study and that IS showing that psi exists and they are working on the theory about how it works.
yes sorry for being edgy l have had a rough day and when i wrote that i guess it was at its worse 
anywayz if that book is no quite right are there any others that might lead towards a point. ie. this is real cause of these experiments. or it is fake cause of this. or we are fence sitting.
what can i say. you have spiked my interest in the facts and i want to know both sides of this stroy. any one know any books web sites (not psipog been there done that) cd tapes. anything but as long as it is cread and not OLD 
thanx
Richard
ok, it’s not water tight but some of it’s damn close,
and anyway, they never claimed to be…
most of the experiments are ‘here’s the test, and these were the results’
= you decide for yourself whether you believe it or not
but honestly, sometimes i have no problem believing something that has a lot of proof but isn’t water tight anyway, i certainly won’t dismiss it
i couldn’t prove to you(water tight) i can ride a bike,
and you couldn’t prove it to me either, even if i saw you riding
(they saw telekinesis too, in plenty of controlled scientific experiments
but some still prefer to think of excuses to not believe it)
why are some of you saying the book is flawed?!?!?!?!?!? 
the only people(2) in this thread who have read the book say it’s great and to me the experiments were the best and most conclusive proof i’ve
ever heard of
(i haven’t read about the princeton study yet, but i somehow doubt a western mind could get very far)
READ the BOOK!!! if you want to poke holes at it go ahead but read it FIRST!!!
lol ok ok i will go get the book but from where 
edit cant spell 
What’s wrong with western minds?
As far as water-tight proof, we’re not talking about someone who simply refuses to be cooperative. We’re talking about scientists. People who are trained to believe what they see, and can be REPEATED by other people. If you tell me (scientists) you can ride a bike(hypothesis), I’ll watch you ride a bike (experiment) , and then I’ll provide you another bike (controls and tests), to be sure it wasn’t something about that bike (training wheels?) that helped you ride it. After a couple demonstrations, I (the scientists) will conclude that you can in fact (proven) ride a bike. It’s the scientific method. It’s the reason you have lights. There’s not someone working at the lightbulb company saying, well the last 1000 times we built one it worked, but I don’t believe in anything 100%, so this one might blow up in my face. Or maybe it will turn into a toaster? C’mon. You show the scientific community that these forces exist, in a way that can be tested, repeated, and observed by anyone, and they WILL accept it. That’s what they do. [/u]
lol i am guessing you take psychology right. nice and you are right. but in life nothing is ever 100% right no matter what. like 1+1 is not always 2 but there is no way i am gonna go into that now lol. if at best 99.9% lol yer well that was worth posting
*bangs head into wall
This is called the Argumentum ad Ignorantiam, or the fallacy of appeal to ignorance. The idea that a lack of evidence against something equates to a convincing argument for it. There are an infinite number of ludicrous claims that cannot currently be disproven (That there’s an invisible lobster hiding behind Pluto, that if anyone says the word “Mango” 4,567,342,437,439 times in a row they will begin to levitate), but they don’t need to be disproven, in fact skeptics don’t even need to present any evidence for them being untrue. The burden of proof lies on the claimant, that’s you guys who believe in this stuff. It’s your responsibility to provide proof, until which time the rest of us are all being perfectly logical in dismissing these claims as nonsense.
Just because we don’t know for sure that something is impossible doesn’t mean it’s remotely worthy of consideration.
The “running a hundred metres” analogy is poor because it’s simply a variation on what was already possible, it wasn’t something utterly new. And the “flat earth” analogy is equally poor because people quite rightly didn’t believe the earth was a sphere until proof was presented.
Sorry, but without widely-accepted evidence, without having had this proved to me personally it’s perfectly acceptable to say it’s not true. It may be impossible to disprove currently but it’s unlikely enough for “It’s untrue” to be a reasonable statement until some evidence is presented.
Like I said, the burden of proof is on the claimants, not the skeptics. We don’t have to back ourselves up, you do.
Well I think that David Blaines street magic is great and if you didn’t know it was a trick you’d be convinced that the bloke really was doing magic!
The Russian experiments were as flawed as their counterparts in the US, they failed to take into account aspects that we have to today in order to have a fair playing feild. Its common knowledge, it doesn’t mean that there wasn’t really psi being displayed just that the results are UNSCIENTIFIC to both western and easten scientists.
The Princton results CLEARLY show that an effect from the tested person is influencing a machine. The reason why their 12 year study has not been flashed round the world as conclusive proof of psi is that - 1. part of the procedures need to be carried out in another lab and 2. They need to show a clear theory about whats happening.
The theory relies on completely cutting edge quantum physics that even the best minds on the planet have a hard time grasping. So far they have a partial theory, when the theory is complete then psi will be science fact.
Check out the results and testing regime on the site.
Wow, this topic hit the 50 post line already!? That was fast.
Okay, Its wednesday now, so Saturday or sunday is coming soon. Although i have noticed quite a lot of “debates” going on in this topic, so allow me to say something:
I believe that psi is controlled by the subconscious because almost every ability (as taught on Psipog) involves visualization to work. The connection between visualization and the subconsicous lies in dreaming, the only time when the subconscious can truly communicate with the conscious mind, and vice versa.
However, this works only because you’re asleep, the one time when all of your conscious attention is totally calm and focused. Obviously, you cant dream while youre awake. In an environment where distractions are never-ending, even thinking straight can be a challenge.
Psi requires a good chunk of concentration because it relies soley on the mind to work. This is where meditation comes in. Meditation is the number two way (no. 1 being sleep itself) to calm the mind. Along with a lot of other things, psi works much better under a clear mind than a cluttered one.
Where am i going with all of this? Well, look. Psi isnt just about making little balls of energy and moving things with your mind. Theres a world more to it than that, but thats not the point. The point is, you are using your mind more than you ever have, and by doing so, you are helping it to think faster, clearer, and more productively. You are, in essence, working out your brain, and you havent even broken a sweat.
Wow, that was short
c’mon as ‘westerners’ you gotta admit the western world is responsible for some of the stupidest, most ignorant, arrogant, narrow minded ■■■■ that’s happened in the history we know of…
the scientific method?!?!?
they(5 man film crew, scientists, reporters) watched Nelya Mikhailova perform TK, they xrayed her first and found no metal or magnets on her,
they watched her first spin a compass without touching it(to warm up),
she then selectively moved a group of matches and small nonmagnetic cylinder,
then the same experiment under a plexiglass container(to rule out wind/threads/wires)
this sort of experiment has been done many many times
according to you(hypothetical scientist), you would conclude she can in fact use TK…
by the way, good post Akira…i agree 
the western person is smart the western people are stupid 
Badcandlejack i think you are missing my point. My point is not to take either side but to be open minded untill it canbe disproved or proved. there is a great deal that we do not know about the universe and whats to say that
that either of them are not true. they are by far very very unlikely but still it might happen. for the brief second that you finily say your last mango there might be a slight shift in the universe and it might be possible for the second, what is to say tha it might not happen.
oh and i can prove to you that TK is Real. go lucid dream. alright so we can do it there big deal.
all i am sayin is that you souldnt say somthin is imposs or poss. just take an open minded opion. it is more healthy
I don’t think so 
You said that we need proof before calling TK fake, I was pointing out that we don’t. The logical position to take is to consider extreme claims as being false until solid evidence is presented. It hasn’t been.
My mind is open, just not entirely vacant
This is a debate, lets keep the name calling out of this. But to defend our narrowminded ignorance, The west gave you a way to use electricity, a means to travel across the ocean in a number of hours, rather than months. the car, the telephone, the television, the computer, I could go on for days. The point being don’t go getting all insulting. This has nothing to do with race, or nationality. Anymore low blows at a culture will just be ignored.
And it seems we’re just going back and forth with this so I’ll just say, I believe that if the scientific community had seen credible evidence of TK, that could be repeated, and measured, it would begin honest studies about it. Call it my own faith. I also believe that TK is possible.
LOL!!! i think you guys took me way too seriously there!
i wasn’t trying to flame anyone, i live in a western culture… 
i just tend not to like western culture much as although it’s done some great things, it kinda seems to be leading us down the wrong track
(violence, hatred, an open mind isn’t really rewarded…, pollution
, the governments general ignorance and ‘robotism’ …etc )
i really don’t want to get into that subject in this thread though,
so can we leave it there?
sorry if i offended anyone…
maybe so but how does logic serve you in your lucid dreams? does it hold you back or move you forwards. anyway
Archrin is right we could keep this up for a very long time and it would e much better over chat. anyway back to what this topic was leading to, how is the video comming along.
oh there are some video cards that will accept cameras with videos in them but you need a cable. but sometimes the software can need a very fast computer too.
Sorry for getting touchy about the culture issue. I’m in the Air Force, stationed in Okinawa. They protest outside our gates every time the Govt. does anything. I’m just sick of people blaming the US for the world’s problems. I’m not going to rant 
I have been trying to form a psi ball between my hands, and it definately feels like there’s some kind of energy. Sometimes it feels like heat. It doesn’t last long, usually I end up thinking it’s just psychosematic. I definitely believe in telepathy. I’ve been reading spirits for years. 
Okay. As of now, im ready to record
Also, ive got some bad news, and some good news.
The bad news is, i dont have any sand, and the jar is too thick to see through clearly.
The good news is, i found a good DIGITAL CAMERA, so getting it on the comp will be a sinch.
Anyway, the movie will consist of a short telekenesis session, in which i will talk, show you the room, and start going. The psi wheel is foil and quite large. If i can, i will try to move a paper wheel. the wheels will spin on a metal needle on a foam needle pincushion. everything rests upon a wood tv tray.
Forgive me for not being able to show the fashion show i suggestelast week. This wont be my last video, but i hope that it will be enough for now.
Im not going to pull any punches. Ill zoom out, give comentaries, and clear the room of things that could interfere.
Anyway, if any of you read this in the next few minutes, feel free to give your say in this befre i start recording. i.e. things that i need to do before starting, objects that counld affect the psi wheel, etc.
I will post another reply when i start recording. cya soon