I as well. I’ve had Lucid Dreams but no OBEs, so I can only formulate an opinion based on what I’ve read about, not from experience.
I still think there needs to be more rigid definitions to these things though 
I disagree. I think lucid refers to clarity of the mind, to a hightened awarness, and that is present in many OOBEs. When you are lucid, to decide if you are dreaming or really out of body has to do with your belief system. Some people believe that all dreams take place out of body, in some astral plane. As long as the subject had to consciously decide whether he is experiencing a dream or a ‘real’ OOBE while it was happening, I would call that lucid dreaming no matter what the subject decides.
But that ‘Lucid’ is also meant to apply to the knowledge that you’re dreaming, so even if your lucid in your OBE, it’s not a Lucid Dream, it’s a lucid OBE
so a lucid OBE is an OBE in which you know that you are dreaming, which means an OBE is a dream (coz if it’s not than you don’t really know your state, hence not lucid), which means it IS a Lucid Dream! 
I don’t think they are LD’s. If you are aware that you are dreaming, then you are dreaming and you can’t be having an OBE.
I think they are normal dreams, but that perhaps before getting into the normal dream the person has experienced sp, vibrations, or strange bodily sensations such as associated with WILD. They may or may not know what these are or really be conscious enough to remember what they are. Then the dream just happens to be their room or house and it appears like RL so they conclude it was an OBE.
For me evertime I experience the sensations that others describe as an OBE I do a reality check and determine I’m dreaming every time.
many authors claim to visit those planes constantly, I dont know what to think. I still vote no. 
this is a very confusing topic, while i have never had an obe, and i know that gives me little room to talk. but my belief system is that the astral projection side of obe are a type of meditation induced ld. however i do believe that obe’s associated with death are really obe’s (or afterlife expiriences).
I have experienced both LD’s and OBE’s and to my experience they are both the same phenomenon (and it doesnt matter what you think it is, LD or OBE or so, because the phenomenon is the same!), so I voted yes. However, to my knowledge there is a type of OBE that really happens when you are not “in” body, those are called NDE’s.
I say it is not the same cause People like Robert Bruce and Frank J. Kepple that can OBE at will and are doing it for ages say they are different.
I don’t rule out that OBEs may really be visits to the other planes of reality, but I voted that OBEs are LDs coz I think they are of the same nature. IMO, If OBEs involve leaving your body somehow, then dreams and lucid dreams involve leaving it too.
Lol, what happened to the “dont judge if you dont have first hand experience” idea, the one which you people at the AP forum trashed me with?.. 
In my opinion they only happen in dreams, internal not external. Our minds are capable of imagining anything
I believe OBE’s are LD’s…
I had only one, i really felt like going out of my body but it was an Ld for sure… So i don’t think u can associate this "getting- out-of-body " feeling with “real” OBE.
And if there is no link, u might as well conclude there is no such thing as a “real” OBE…
LOL! Dark Sider! Have you read the rest of my post?
It seems we perfectly agree! But lucidity, in the commonly accepted definition (Laberge, Tholey) means “knowing you’re dreaming”. There has been a long debate between Tate and Gillepsie about this in the 70’s, and nowadays the scientific community agrees to this shaky definition. 
yes Basilus West, I did read the rest. 
I didn’t really get the point above. I mean if you have a LD and in the LD you believe you are dead (because you are not aware enough, not because of your belief system), and then you wake up and think: “oh, I wasn’t dead! i was just dreaming”, I don’t think that qualifies as a LD, coz you weren’t aware enough to recognize your true state (true, again, in a sense of being consistant with your belief system). And to say that lucid means to be able to reason, well sometimes one can reason perfectly in a dream, and still think that he is awake. All dreams are conscious dreams (dreaming IS after all an altered state of consciousness) , and all dreams differ by their nuances of awarness. I think lucid should be defined as self-aware enough to recognize one’s true state of consciousness with respect to one’s belief system.
Thanks for pointing out the debate I’ll check it out as soon as i can.
Great point of view, Dark Sider!
As for me, even if I define lucidity on this forum as “knowing you’re dreaming” (cause it’s easier to understand, especially for beginners) in my own DJ, I distinguish LD’s by the fact there is an increase of awareness. I don’t take in account what I’m believing about the situation. But this may lead to confusion, cause, as you said, consciousness exists in every dream, so it’s not a discrete distinction. When this increase is dramatic, LD’s are easy to distinguish. I’ve notice some LD’s in which it wasn’t the case and awareness was growing up progressively. Generally speaking, when it reaches a certain level, you feel a difference and have a belief about what special thing happens to you (dreaming, OBE’ing, etc.)
Two days later I wrote the first post, I found an precise example about believing you’re dead. It was in the famous Sylvan Muldoon’s book “The Projection of the Astral Body”. The very first Muldoon’s LD/OBE was he was flying in his house, believing he had an heart attack and was dead. 
Later, he tried to explain this strange experience, found the “astral” concept in litterature, and supposed he was astral projecting. In his further LD’ing experiences (I say “LD’ing”, cause Muldoon doesn’t distinguish between LD’s and astral projection, in his opinion the realm of dreams is the astral plane) he recognized this state as astral projecting.
Was the first Muldoon’s LD a LD or not? His further LD’s were, according to your definition, LD’s, cause they are in accordance with his beliefs. But subjectivelly, his first experience wasn’t different from others (since he recognized it later as an astral projection). IMO, it’s difficult not to classify it as an LD.
But “to dream, perchance lucidly, ay, there’s the rub” , if I extend the definition of lucid dreaming to “believing you’re in an altered state of consciousness” (thus it could include rare LD’ing experiences like believing you’re dead, believing you’re hypnotized, believing you’re a somnambulist, etc.) it’s impossible to distinguish conscious dreams from normal dreams in which you may believe such things… 
and that’s why I find your definition interesting.
I start to believe that the definition of lucid dreaming poses a real philosophical problem…
Always a hot topic. I read a lot on OBEs or astral projections, etc yesterday so I’ve been contemplating it a lot. It’s interesting to note that the majority of “OBEs” have happened while asleep or going to sleep, and I agree with whoever said in some other thread (Aetheist I believe?) that it’s just like WILD only you dream of getting out of your body during the sensations. I believe that true, NDE/OBE are definitely possible, 'though I’ve never experienced them. I’ve heard from a man his NDE when he was shot thousands of feet over the earth and was given a choice between darkness or cleaning his life up on earth. He’s still here today. 
I know that we have a physical and a spiritual body but being able to leave our phyiscal body at will seems a little far fetched. It would make sense during periods of intense, intense physical trauma the spirit leaves or gives up, possibly sees the bright light, hears that it isn’t our time yet etc. , and can reenter the body, but for us to be given the power to be able to leave it at will… I’m not too sure on that one. But I’m pretty opened minded (within reason)…
"I say it is not the same cause People like Robert Bruce and Frank J. Kepple that can OBE at will and are doing it for ages say they are different. "
Thats because they are different,thats the point.They feel different,they happen in known surroundings,sometimes almost same like in rl.BUT- their base is same in my opinion.Its leaving your body with your mind,and whats important in this discussion TO ANOTHER place,never to real enviroment.
I had both and firstly i assumed them to be different things.But after more experiences i also noticed it matters not that i feel them different cuz both of them were taking me ELSE than real world with no possibility to be in rl.Sometimes what i saw could have been taken for real world but after it lasted longer i kept finding out differences from it- furniture reorganized,ppl somwhere where ppl should be not…etc.If they had been shorter i could have not gain this knowledge.
Anyways…anyone can try it in their lds.Just wish you are at home and see how similar it will be,sometimes exactly same but after closer investigation youll find differences.But i advice you dont- just use both to your likings without worrying about how to define it.Use it to gain knowledge about whats "there" not about "is it here or there?" cuz in my opinion youll be wasting lots of precious time just for a definition.
take care:)
I voted yes.
The essense of this is “do we have a spirit?” Either…
yes - we have a spirit that can leave our bodies and magically travel in this or other realities…or…
no - just our physical brains that can model experiences that seem real.
We experience the world with our bodies, our sensory organs.
If you believe your spirit can leave your body through OOBE or AP,
PLEASE answer this simple question:
How does a pure spirit experience sights, sounds, etc?
Not only that, but how does it experience them as if it were experiencing these things from the perspective we hae now, in our bodies powered by a brain?
Interesting food for thought