Gay marriage.

Lucid Lounge
1

I know this probably isn’t a huge issue on here, mainly just an American one, though we have a fair share of americans, but rather than take my circumcision thread way off topic with a long reply I wrote in resopnse to Demon… I will post this here.

This gay marriage issue is belligerant racism (or at least bigotry) at its finest.

Main Entry: seg·re·ga·tion
Pronunciation: "se-gri-'gA-sh&n
Function: noun
1
2 a : the separation or isolation of a race, class, or ethnic group by enforced or voluntary residence in a restricted area, by barriers to social intercourse, by separate educational facilities, or by other discriminatory means b : the separation for special treatment or observation of individuals or items from a larger group

Assume you believe in the sacredness of marriage in a non-religious context and were gay, how would you feel if they said “no you fag, you can’t marry… you’re a threat to the sanctity of marriage! but here, go get a damn civil union”

We long ago deemed segregation uconstitutional, Bush has got to be the biggest threat to freedom this country has ever seen…

If certain churches don’t want to honor gay marriage that is great, that’s their right. But you should under no circumstances ban it… it’s up to the people getting married and the institution marrying them, no more, no less.

Now I realize I chastise the religious right a lot… and make generalizations, I know not all of them are like this… it’s the select few that rule all of us… it’s sad really.

Some guy I once talked to wanted to abolish freedom of religion (he was a christian) IF christianity was the only acceptable religion, otherwise he was against getting rid of freedom of religion.

who knows if he was serious or not though, he seemed like it.

so discuss your viewpoints. I understand morally objecting to homosexuality, but that does not mean it should be forbidden that gay people marry, it’s their right. Either ban straight marriage, or even better, ban divorce (Bush wants marriage to be sacred after all), or let gays marry.

I am extremely offended, honestly, by the overwhelming American support for the banning of homosexual marriage, 71% in Missouri for example, it comes to ballot in my state (OK) this November, I think I’m going to start some activism up on my campus, get apathetic “moderate” kids to vote against banning it…

I mean… if I were gay, I’d just… I’d be rather hurt… you know? There are a lot of American values I think are stupid, but part of me still respects marriage, thinks “it’d be nice to get married” I Understand if you love someone dearly you dont’ need a marriage to make your love “official” but it’s just… it’s the social gathering, it’s the tradition.

You don’t go have a CIVIL UNION PARTY! the family doesn’t gather and go “aww, they got civil unioned… I’m going to cry” it’s … horrible.

And I’m of the opinion that it’s blatant segregation.

2

I agree that civil unions are not adequate solutions. Aside from your above arguments a civil union may not confer the same legal protections and rights to a couple that marriage does.

We have been hearing a lot about the sanctuary of marriage but, marriage is simply a contractual agreement between two people.

Our constitution requires equal rights for all and I do not see how a civil union is equal.

On a personal note when this whole debate started up I asked myself how would I be harmed if two people of the same sex decided to marry. The answer was it doesn’t. Furthermore, it is none of my business what consenting adults choose to do. I think Bush is making a big mistake by making this an issue. I think there will be a minority of people for it and against it but, as a hole most people just will not care enough about it either way. Certainly not enough to amend the constitution.

3

well milod i’ve read reports (from respectable news sources) saying that anywhere from 40-55 sometimes upwards of 60% of Americans support the amendmant…

4

Holy Reality, don’t always believe statistics. I know they are wrong, but I will have to research for some URLs.

beliefnet.com/story/139/story_13976_1.html
60% against Gay marriage, and 59% against an ammendment.
The wording is tricky, but American’s do not want an ammendment.

The most recent polls had “60-70%” against gay marriage, last I heard only ~30% were for amending the constitution. These are 2 totally different types of votes.

I think Bush and others argument against “preserving marriage” is a more innocent sounding excuse than the real reasons.
Tax, health, insurance benefits and money would no longer be for “straight couples.”

Marriage for many = producing and raising children
Some argue the benefits for families raising children should be first.

However, in “the real world” many straight couples decide to not or can’t have children, and gay couples can have children from previous relationships or adopt.

These 2 points are much better arguments against gay marriage than the religious “preserving sanctity” argument.
They preach “presearvation” at a time when our prime time television shows are “Who wants to marry a midget?” “Who wants to marry a millionare?” “Marry Me America” “Britney’s spears 24 hour wedding”
:lol: The timing of this is very comical.
I find it very hilarious to hear Bush or some anti-gay marriage comments on TV, and then it be interupted by one of these commercials. It’s hilarous.

What is not funny is gay couples that have lived together forever and not be able to share work benefits such as health care. Cival unions can not provide this, only marriage.
In emergencies or hospital visits their partner has no legal right or relation with their partner. If the doctor needs a “family opinion” theirs do not qualify. They could be denied any visititation all together, and have been.
During the circumstance one of the partners die, the other partner has no claim on any of the other partners property, or decisions on funeral or will arrangements.
During tax season they cannot file “jointly” or “married” and therefore enter a different tax bracket.

Marriage by the government should remain equal and for all consenting couples. Only religious marriage should have the right to not bless certain couples. Just a few years ago some states still could not marry mixed races. Eventually America will have the same rights to gays.

Does any country have gay marriage? that is just as equal as “straight marriage?” and not just another cival union?

5

on the topic of hopsital rights someone from another forum knew a guy who’s boyfriend was in an accident, died in the hopsital, they wouldn’t let him go anywhere near him, he was dragged out kicking and screaming by security :sad:

what kind of heartless people would do that? Fuck protocol… it’s not like this guy is some axe murderer or anything, you know they are together…

oh and i’m gonna look up the polls, that’s interesting.

About 6 in 10 Americans oppose the legalization of same-sex marriage, but less than half support the idea of a constitutional amendment that would define marriage as only between a man and a woman. Republicans are more likely than independents or Democrats to favor such an amendment. At this point in time, same-sex marriage is not high on the list of issues voters will use to make up their minds when choosing a presidential candidate, although Republicans are more concerned about it than independents or Democrats are.
gallup.com/content/login.aspx?ci=10585

“New poll shows 67% support Federal Marriage Amendment”
bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=18296

hmm it’s a christian site though…

“Forty-six percent of Americans favor an amendment, while 45 percent say the states should be left to make their own laws on the issue. Just a month ago, by contrast, 58 percent wanted it left to the states. Much of the change has occurred in the West — an apparent backlash to the same-sex marriages now occurring in San Francisco.”
abcnews.go.com/sections/us/R … 40224.html

as we can see it’s a very… umm… “flip flop” issue with Americans… but… I’m not seeing inspiring results, lots and lots of people seem to support it.

that’s an old poll though.

6

That is true and if the couple does not have an advance directive and a health care proxy matters could be worse with the new HIPPA (Health Insurance Preservation and Portability Act) guidelines which enacts some strong confidentially guidelines. So if the person is not able to speak for themselves he/she is not married to their significant other they could be truly … Even if the person has a living will, advance directive, or health care proxy these things are challenged in court all the time. Nothing equals the same legal rights as marriage.

Yes but what the polls don’t ask is how much do you care about the issue. I think this is going to blow up in Bush’s face. Not because people are for gay marriage( which they should be) but, most people just don’t care about it as much as Bush thinks. By the way what ever happened to states rights.

7

that’s a good point, I don’t think many people are passionate about it, except the gays and the hippies and the gay haters.

Which are a … well… a large hunk of America, but not a huge one.

Somewhere around 10% of the population is openly gay though… how many people is that, 10 million? More?

onto medical rights if you’re in an accident do family members get to see you ? I once filled something out saying I only wanted my medical information to be shared with me… umm… you know for results of doctor’s appointments… that wouldn’t keep them from being able to see me or get info on me if I were incapacitated would it?

(they haven’t really honored what I signed either, I once told him it was okay to call my dad about the medical results and since then he hasn’t been “secretive” about them… that’s fine with me, though it may be a breach in contract.

8

The United States have >1500 local newspapers through out the country.

During the last 5 weeks “gay marriage” announcments have grew from being published in only 69 newspapers … to 504.
That is over 1/3rd of the US newspapers now have a section dedicated to announcing Gay couples engangements and marriages.

The change that is happening so quickly it’s enough to make your head spin.

glaad.org/action/campaigns_d … hp?id=3297

I was very happy to see my towns on the list. :content:

9

It made me laugh. Countries that allow gay marriage:
Belgium
Canada
Columbia (More like a joining than a marriage)
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Greenland
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Netherlands (Exact same rights as hetrosexuals)
Norway
Portugal
Scotland
Sweden

So anyway, what I am saying is gay marriage is legal in almost every EU country and many other countries.

I wonder what the queen thinks about it.

It made me laugh that only 1 US state legalized gay civil unions. Lol. So while the rest of the world is beggining to accept gays in society, the US doesn’t seem to be.

10

Here’s my reply to topics like this.

People should have the right to do what makes them happy. If they are homosexual and they want to get married why should people stand in the way.

11

Technodreamer, thanks for the list I was curious about that.
It seems the UK and USA are at about the same progression. I wouldn’t be so quick to laugh at another countries progression when your own country has similar problems with the same issue. I don’t see anything funny.

Key word=“beginning”
The world hasn’t fully accepted the gay lifestyle, and it is “beginning” to be accepted many places. Did you even read my post?? Almost 1/3 of American newspapers now have sections dedicated to gay unions. Isn’t that a beginning?
Gay-ness is like a whole pop-culture in the US, and it’s seen everywhere. We have Gay TV shows, Gay radio stations, Gay TV channels, and don’t even try to discriminate in the work place or residential housing towards Gays … because they will have so many attorneys and activist threatening your wallet and reputation that it will make you crazy.

12

yeah, it really is true, not just liberal propoganda, that the US is the most “backwards” civilized country, and by civilized I mean like, they pretend to care about rights and freedoms and have good technologies and stuff, but they don’t really do very well at it.

sad that we were once one of the few “free” countries at the time… wtf?

Yay for Canada and the Netherlands, I love those countries more each day.

13

But being gay doesnt even make sense in the first place.

Ok think about this, Penis and a Penis, nope that doesn’t work, umm lets try another one, vagina and a vagina, nope that doesn’t work either. OK i know Penis and the butthole (geez thats nasty).

You can totallt tell by the way that our bodies are designed that a man was made for a woman, and a woman for a man, it just doesnt work any other way. I mean yeah sure you can use fingers or whatever, but you can’t reproduce human life with a man and a woman.

And the gays know this, so they say “ok what can we say that can make it seem normal, oh I know we were born this way, its in our genes!” I mean what the heck, DNA that makes you lust for the same sex (again thats just nasty).

Also studies have shown that almost all gay people grew up in broken homes, where there was no father or mother figure in there life, or they are getting payed to do it on film.

You say that its not fair that gay people can not get heath care or or anything like that, well let me ask you this, do you think that it would be ok for to roomates at school to have the same medical plan and stuff, just because they are living together and maybe like each other a little bit? That just doesnt make sense.

And I particullarly like Arnold Schwar…ar’s Statement “Girly Men”

Yeah I think I like that hes Governer now…

14

DeMoN, you are missing the whole point. It’s not about your personal opinon of who/what gays are.

The point is that millions of gay people live on this planet, and gay people have always and will always exist. Why shouldn’t they have the same rights as others?

15

Demon studies do NOT show that…

I recently took developmental psychology and all that matters is that, one parent, two, gay, bi, lesbian, grandma, whatever, what matters is the love and nurturance they put into it.

For gay people one guy is often the “mother” and one the “father” and vice versa for lesbians. While I’ll give you it may make you more open minded to homosexuality, alot of homosexual couples encourage their children to be straight, especially in such a hostile world toward them.

Let me ask you this… DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT?

If choosing to be gay is a choice, how about you choose to be gay for one day, and try to make out with a man, and see if it’s attractive toward you.

I can tell you right now I"ve had as much “gay” thoughts as the next guy (not a ton but, a few) but I’d be hard pressed to ever “choose” to be gay, there’s a mechanism in me that says NO … even though women are such b!tches sometimes…

I’d like you to find one straight man that ever just spontaneously decided he wanted to be gay for the hell of it. BISEXUAL maybe. Not gay.

(choosing to be bisexual may turn you gay though)

and if you think homosexuality is not natural you need only to look at the animal kingdom, monkeys, dolphins, they have homosexual orgies for fun. Ducks… well, I read an article about a necrophillic homosexual duck.

So these things happen, and they are genetic, or at least, the result of something “different” going on in your head.

Some people may be on the fence and choose it, I doubt everyone does.

and FYI the prostate gland (located up your rear end) is a male G spot.

16

:lmao: It took me so long to figure out why you put that there!! :lmao:
And yes, it’s two inches up. Amen.

As for gay people, we don’t have a right to deny them a marriage or any of the privleges bestowed on married people. Marriage is a worldwide symbol of the love between two people. Ever loved someone (in a heterosexual manner)? The feeling is undeniable. You just can’t take something like that away because it’s different than what you’re used to. Would you object to marriage between a black and white person? You wouldn’t now, but a while ago you know it wouldn’t have been allowed. Today we look back and see what a silly little thing we were fighting over: race. I propose that we skip the lynchings and just give them their rights! This country was built on freedom dammnit, and we’ll conquer every single discriminatory practice one by one!

I’m really bad at this by the way, probably several gaping holes i’ve missed. Just a disclaimer so no one flames me…

Starting with discrimination against gays, then against minors. We’ll have our underage sex…

17

But that G spot is just there so that it doesn’t hurt when you poop.

I Like pooping cuz it feels good.

and sorry if I offended anybody, I’m in kind of a bad mood right now, so I’ll just leave the topic before I end up hurting somebody. :cool_laugh:

18

Yes, be careful. I am bi, BTW.

And yeah! I chose to be bi. Because I knew how much trouble I would get, and it appealed to me. Oh, and I knew that it would make things harder, like having to tell my parents etc. It’s just so fun!

You can tell how ironic I was being.

Not all straight couples are able to reproduce life. Does that make them “lesser” in society? No. Do old women, past their reproduction capabilities, become “lesser”? No.

You do relize that some straight couples have anal sex? Because they do.

I wont condem anyone for their activities. (Unless it was rape, forced incest, child sex or animal rape)

Oh really? Prehaps God added something else in.

19

Funny how a country that call themself the land of free, can deny such basic rights to certain people…

20

I wish everyone here would just get over gay marriage. I’m thankfull that even after being pushed and pushed by Bush and the Republican party, that it has taken a backseat as they realized that Kerry had passed them in the polls.

The focus has shifted for now, but its not for long. There are two things about America, the first is that often the Christians think they have to be on a mission to pass laws and squeeze in their beliefs while telling other people they are wrong.

But there is another side that is quite odd. And that is how much certain religions can get away with in America. You would think at a time like this, with the scared whites that live here, that Muslims would have it pretty tough, but it is quite the opposite. Just to avoid any kind of applied ‘racism’ the Muslims are able to do a lot of stuff that christians and jews can’t do. One is public prayer when it comes to not giving people a choice to attend. There are neighborhoods in the United States that broadcast Muslim prayers on PA’s in the morning and afternoon. Christianity would never get away with that.

I think people here in America just need to let go of their idea that they have to fulfill God’s wishes just because the Bible said nothing about gay people. Its just sad.