:o okay… :o
umm yeah i was feeling the sameway a couple of months ago so i took a break, i had a dream the other night about lding and it kinda reinvigerated me. Maybe you just need to take a break?
never try to convince yourself that a lie is true. no good can come of that. dreams arent real, no matter what.
but what exactly is it you want right now? to learn from yourself? to gain happiness? it sounds like you don’t even know the answer yourself. try to think of an answer to that question.
manko, U HAD SEX WITH YOURSELF!!
now that IS wierd
that’s so simplistic, i don’t know what is true and what isn’t true.
i mean, as milod said, if you believe dreams are lies, then they will be.
this is evidence of an overwhelmingly strong “subconscious” role in your dreams, but that doesn’t mean that there is not something you can tune into amidst the chaos.
I have had inexplicably interesting shared dreaming succeses, but I am not “naive” … I am very critical, I mean, I go, and I see a black room, and I open it willing my teacher to be there, and I ask her when the test is, because I skipped class the previous time, being hung over.
she says it was postponed.
i go to school, and this is IMMEDIATELY after I had the dream, i had this thing like 5 minutes before I had to get up to get ready for class… and I ask her about the test, and she tells me it’s put off until the next class meeting, and the way she says it is real similar to how she did in the dream.
and then I go and I have a pseudo-OBE within a dream and I find my friend, and he is so UNREAL like subconscious gibberish he doesn’t make sense and he is zombie like, but I talk to him anyway, because I really miss him and we have been out of touch, and I want to start talking to him again… I think I told him to email me maybe.
well, next day, very next day, he sends me an AIM offline message, this is the first time he’s ever sent me one… he doesn’t remember dreaming about me though.
so this, this shows, that even if dream characters are muddy and gibberishy, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are fake, maybe they are representations of the dreamer’s curent mindstate?
Or maybe coincidence? The possibilities are endless… you know? For every guy that says dreaming is fake, one says it’s real, and it’s such an avenue of thought that western science doesn’t pay enough attention to… Mavromatis supposedly confirmed that shared hypnagogia is possible… I’ve got his book (“Hypnagogia”) right now but I’ve been really lazy in reading it, I’m not even into the 100s yet.
… so…
I don’t want to tell myself it’s fake, because it might not be… but yeah you’re right I can’t tell myself it’s real, i’m just too much of a skeptic…
and the biggest problem is I know no real life lucid dreamers… I can try with people on the forums to have a shared dream I guess… I don’t know.
yeah exactly … i’m so lost… it’s all just fragmented and… kind of … negated.
Are things supposed to be that way? No truth, no lies… just… “Is” … ?
I’m nowhere near such a state but…fragmented parts of me are… in a way.
I don’t know what I want from lucid dreaming.
I want to have sex, to the point of orgasm, to the point of amazing orgasm, with a woman, a real woman, in a real shared lucid dream, I want to experience euphoria like I felt in one of my first LDs at age 13-16 or something… I just… out of nowhere inexplicably find this rainbow land, and the feelings it gave me were indescribable, I have never felt anything like that again… I’ve had … maybe 1/1000th of it at times… was it just because lucid dreaming is a novelty?
the problem is not lucid dreaming, it is the very nature of existence itself. Do we grow bored of all things? Is Buddhism in essence correct, the cause of suffering is desire? Is the ONLY way to be happy… to stop being? To connect to absolute emptiness which is the same as absolute infinity?
If so, then I should not be dreaming, I should be entering some sort of … deep meditational trance state, as if in delta sleep while conscious… i’ve “tried” but not very hard to do that.
Should I work dilligently on meditation while dreaming?
Maybe, but I’M NOT GOOD AT MEDITATION, if I can’t do it in real life I won’t have great results in dream either… the mind is more quiet, but… there are still distractions and thoughts.
See, if happiness can be obtained with LDing, if there is some sort of “connection” i can make so that my dreams ARE meaningful, and I always wake up happy having had a cool time, then… the answer is I need to find meaningful activities to pursue… but then I limited to the constraints of my own head… sure there is lots of untapped creativity while dreaming, but the happiest dreams are not lucid dreams, they are dreams which I perceive to be real.
and this is a deep statement about reality… ignorance IS bliss… it seems to advocate submitting to … the powers that be (no no no not the government, of course not, just … “cosmicness”) and… “reaching out to embrace the random, reaching out to embrace whatever may come” and if that is the case, that should be my LIFE APPLICATION, not my dream application, i should… take up a vow of silence and just… blend, with nature, and with people, and walk… and explore, and do drugs… and meditate, and everytime i want to do something but it makes me anxious and sick to think about it because I’m afraid to do it, I just say ■■■■ that, I’ll do it anyway even though I’m scared and uncomfortable.
so… i don’t know… i don’t know what the ■■■■ is going on!!!
dreaming will help me understand my mind at least, but sometimes it shows me things that I don’t want to see about myself…
for example… i used to have… tons of nightmares/sp about … well about being raped, I have vanquished them most entirely for the most part… but often times it was by males…
and you know, what does it mean, it means a lot of things, but one thing i don’t particularly want it to mean is that i may be somehow or another bisexual… i am not opposed to homosexuality, but as time progresses I feel more and more inclined to … not be … upset, or repulsed, by it… and to almost be curious… and you know, that’s not bad, if someday i felt okay about it, that doesn’t matter.
but what does matter is i also sometimes have dreams about compromising situations with girls that are WAY TOO YOUNG… and knowing me, and knowing my sexual issues (lots of pent up sexual frustation/confusion)… it just terrifies me to think of the implications that these dreams have, that somewhere inside me I may be attracted to severely underage women… it’s natural, of course… but… it scares me …
i just want proof, something that strikes me as profound enough to accept that lucid dreams can be real, sometimes.
they aren’t so much low level lucidity as it is like… my ID is running rampant… I’m just going crazy doing skin deep desires and not thinking or reflecting critically and engaging in more meaningful experiments…
the best are semi lucid dreams in which i interact directly with dream characters, thinking they may be real, or they may be fake, but not caring, and treating them as if it were a shared dream to such a degree that I may temporarily believe it is a real shared dream.
ughhhhhhhhh
I feel like I need to do LSD… NOW… it won’t really help me any but it will give me, I believe, the necessary mindstate to critically analyze myself, my thought patterns, and force me to accept and integrate facets of reality that I have largely been ignoring or oblivious to…
but you know, I’m so damn paranoid of the government and the cops…
Not exactly hardcore, but something weird. Try imagine when you touch yourself and feel both your hand and the place where you touch. I was so fascinated with that. Exact replica of yourself in fact.
Parale realitieeessss
I worry about you manko, i really do.
I suppose I kind of understand where your coming from.
Could you feel both you’s?? That is quite strange if you could.
Phil
holly reality,
It seems you’re just going through the “void”. Or maybe not.
It means all the LD has transformed you and you are able to see: the world that we’ve been told about since we were born is meaningless. Even more, it could be just a dream 
So, don’t worry about, keep going … everything is temporary in this world, so even your bad mood will go away
Just keep on doing it.
Nope, homosexuality is normal.
This is strange:
But then, we all are different.
if you worry about demons then they will show up, even if they aren’t real.
i know that from firsthand experience.
firstly, I never said homosexuality was not normal, he had sex wiht himself, this is not homosexuality; would you call masturbation homosexuality??
Secondly, homosexuality is not normal; normal is something that is the most common, to say homosexuality is unnormal is just to say that it is in a small minority.
Cya
Phil
Would you say someone who is black or Hispanic or other ethnic group was “abnormal”? 
Anyway getting way of topic here.
everything is normal, including deviance.
i had a pretty nutty ld today… i flew out my window, spider webs hit my face, and normally these things sometimes scare me about of lucid action but i decided to ignore it… then… i got stuck under a huge tree and it’s limbs turned into spider legs, there was some spider rotating on a pedastal (a big spider that is, bigger than me) and … well… i flew by it ignoring it and thinking i’m glad i didn’t get a good look at it…
then i flew into space, and i saw a meteor strike earth somewhere near south america, but it should hae been where australia was i think…
then i saw some eyes pop up and i tried to contact them but it didn’t work, so i opened my wrist chakra, in the form of eyes, and flashed them at the being, and it started talking to me, supposed to be God or something, and it spoke in subtitles (which probably relates to the clown episode of aqua teen hunger force i just saw) … so then… it had me say a weird prayer i think having something to do with denouncing the possibility of the existence of Gods… or something… then I asked it if it was God and it said, no, not really… and I told it I wanted to evolve, and it said I wouldn’t evolve for a long time and showed me a diagram of my energy levels… which were green and purple…
i then opened my root chakra and asked to see the diagram again and it was then more balanced looking.
i then was sititng in my grandparents house, I think… unless i’m not remembering a segment of the dream.
the experience wasn’t particularly meaningful.
What would you say are the difference between real life and a lucid dream?
To me, its all experience. A lucid dream might not be a permanent place, it’s alot more plastic and follows your thoughts to a much larger degree. Real life you could say also follows your thoughts and expectations/beliefs, but in a delayed fashion.
If you keep flying around and having sex all the time, I think it either might be because the lucid dream is not of a high enough quality, so your baser instincts take over to a larger degree. Another thing might be that you just have not thought much over what you really want to do in your lucid dreams before heading off to bed.
It’s all experience, so just enjoy it.
sorry to keep going off topic but anyway, homosexuality is unnormal, unnormal simply means not usual, homosexuality isnt the usual thing to encounter, therefore it is unnormal. And there is a difference between abnormal and unnormal.
I don’t know I run into people who lead alternative lifestyles all the time, it is often a topic on television programs, etc. How unusual can it be?
You are right there, unnormal is not a word. 
Anyway,
Holey Reality,
Are you finding any of the above advice helpful? Do you feel like anyone has touched on, or understands what your problem is?
Homosexuality is not normal if you look at how sex is ment to be performed but i would definately not say that it is wrong. Btw they found some sheep are homosexual.
Thought i would chip in with my opinion.
I let myself go every dream, I dont really fulfill my purpose. I do if the dream gets boring. But it almost never does.
We are going way off topic here and I would hate to ruin Holey Reality’s thread. Therefore, I suggest that we continue this debate in the gay marriage threadI will copy the last couple of posts there so those that want to continue debating this can pick up where they left off.
milod, i think i found some of the advice helpful but i can’t entirely remember all that was said to me right now.
i will be moving out soon hopefully, and perhaps partaking in things that i have not normally been able to do, which may help give me a different perspective on life and reality.
woo, i stand corrected. But unnormal sounds so right!