Have been struggling with WILD for years, any tips?

When I first began trying to lucid dream, around November of 2023, I started off with WBTB + WILD. I now know that WILD isn’t great for beginners lol. But this was what I was attempting at first, so I have been trying it for a while, without many changes to my technique since I first began. I’m looking for some advice for what I could do differently to help with my no successes :')

(I also don’t mind if you skim through this, it is quite long! I’ll just let you know if there was something important you may have missed, based off of your response)

My main issue is that I either fall asleep because I am too tired to focus on staying aware (that sort of tiredness where anything you think about starts going into really repetitive loops and you keep forgetting what you were just thinking about), or I am too aware and can never fall asleep.

People have told me that I just need to tough it out when I feel like I can’t fall asleep, and that the hypnagogic hallucinations will come eventually. But at some point it feels like my chest is going to explode from boredom lol. And I feel like I am alright at doing stuff like meditating, but for some reason trying to do WILD for so long gets unbearable.

Btw I am doing other techniques at the same time, but I want to work on this one while I am at it! I am trying to put an emphasis on MILD especially. Also note that attempting to lucid dream has been a very on-and-off process for me, so I have not been trying consistently for 3 years straight lol

So this is what mainly happens during my WILD attempts, if I don’t fall asleep during the process:

-I lay down and relax my entire body. This comes to me really easily. I may spend a minute shifting my body around until I get fully comfortable, and then I can basically just go limp. Sometimes there is lingering tenseness, but I can get rid of that within a couple minutes by relaxing whenever I exhale.

-I go through some MILD mantras/intentions. I might do this before or after SSILD, it depends. This part doesn’t feel very structured, it’s mostly just willing myself to have and remember a lucid dream lol. I try and remind myself of what I want to do once I realize I am dreaming. I have also begun asking a CALDacter to help me become lucid at night, but definitely not for long enough to say anything about the effectiveness. He is barely developed within my own mind yet.

-I then cycle through SSILD. I go through my sight, hearing, and touch. Even if I am not too sleepy, I can start losing track here like crazy! I try to do 6 cycles, but often I zone out in the middle of one and have to pick up from where I left off. If I am doing really badly, I might just go through 1 quick cycle to at least get something completed, and then call it a night. Should I try doing something else in this situation?

-Time to focus on an anchor and wait until something happens! Here I just focus on something, like my breathing or visualizing a dream that I want to enter. If I am too sleepy, this step is where I fall asleep lol. If I am not sleepy enough, this becomes the infinite wait! But a lot of stuff tends to happen during this wait, so I will talk about that next.

-Fake itches! These are easy, maybe just mildly annoying. One time I felt a “bug” on my face, crawling towards my eye. I knew it was fake, but I still wanted to swipe it off for that 1% chance that it was real lol. But nowadays I can wait through these sensations easily!

-Numbness level 1. Once the itches are over, I feel a mild sense of numbness come over me, especially on my limbs, which are motionless. Not really my torso or head, since those are moving from or feeling my breathing. At this point, if I am lying in any weird position with any sort of discomfort, this becomes very apparent lol. This is why I CANNOT try WILD while lying on my sides, the asymmetry is unbearable. The feeling of my neck being bent, my feet/legs intersecting, my innards being pulled to the side by gravity, and my ribs holding my skin up against gravity is wildly uncomfortable. There are also discomforts from lying on my back, but it’s so much better than on my side. Lying on my side is just for falling asleep normally. That was a bit of a tangent lol. At this point, my vision may also “zoom into” the darkness behind my eyelids, as if I am being enveloped.

-Waitinggg. Just a lot of waiting…

But during this part, depending on the day, I might end up giving up. It’s been happening fairly often. And for the reason of being uncomfortable, despite lying on my back. One thing that happens is that I get the super strong urge to swallow. Either mucus is building up in my throat, my throat is becoming too dry, or both. I drink a lot of water to try and avoid that, but it doesn’t work. This is really difficult to get through! Last night I got it while I was meditating, and it was the first time I could actually get myself to sit through it. My throat felt like it was getting dried and “cracked,” but I got through. Well, not exactly “get through,” since I still had the sensation distracting me the entire time, but at least I did not succumb to the urge to swallow lol. Reason that swallowing is an issue is because it distracts me from my anchor and makes me too “awake,” which pushes me off the path to WILD by a bit. And of course I can’t achieve WILD if I keep having to swallow over and over. Another thing that happens is an air bubble being in my mouth. I don’t know why, but it makes me uncomfortable and it really distracts me. I try to get rid of the air bubble, but when I relax my mouth, it shows up again. This never bothered me years ago, it is a fairly recent annoyance. There are probably some other things that I don’t remember, but the main gist is that annoying/uncomfortable sensations around my mouth/throat keep distracting me and are very difficult to ignore. What should I do about that?

-Weird sensation. If I wait long enough, I may get a weird sensation as well as static sounds becoming louder in my ears. It is hard to describe the sensation, but it can be pretty strong. It used to be much stronger when I was doing this around 2-3 years ago. Recently it’s been a bit weaker in comparison. It’s a kind of cool feeling, but also very unrelaxing. It makes my heart rate go faster and causes my breathing to speed up to non-sleeping speeds. I usually try to slow it down to keep up the facade of being asleep to my brain, but it makes me feel like I’m going to run out of oxygen, even though I won’t. I can do it fine, even if it is uncomfortable to breathe more slowly, but I am worried that putting all that focus on it knocks me off the path to success with WILD. Another annoying part about it is that it makes me tense my core whenever I take a breath. I don’t know why, maybe that sensation is too strong? I should be keeping my body limp, but I don’t know how to not tense my core when this sensation happens. I have also tried not to focus on it much, but when I do that, it keeps happening anyways. So what could I do about the core tensing? And should I slow down my breathing to be more normal when this happens, or do I just let my body do whatever it is doing automatically so that I don’t knock myself off the path?

-Numbness level 2, and nothing else happens… This feels like I am more numb than before, almost as if my limbs do not exist. I still feel my torso and head, though. That part never goes away. I feel like I am getting close to something here, but then nothing else happens. I just lie there. Maybe I go back and forth between the “weird sensation” step and this one a few times over the span of several minutes. I try to visualize a dream to enter. I feel the surroundings, hear the sounds, look all around. But I never get immersed into it, I am only thinking about it, for what feels like a really long time. Nothing else really happens. At some point I start to feel super uncomfortable and like I really have to move. I try to keep waiting, but nothing happens. So ultimately, I give up. This is the furthest I have gotten. What should I do?

I wrote a LOT here, but hopefully someone doesn’t mind helping lol. I will be really thankful to get some! :smiley:

I’m no expert on WILD and never had much success with it myself, but in my experience the biggest factor is when you attempt it. It’s practically impossible to get anywhere with it in the evenings. The closest I’ve come to making it work was in the mornings, like 2-3 hours before I’d usually wake up.

Static sounds are often associated with the onset of sleep paralysis, so maybe you’re getting close? Although I’ve not really heard of/experienced anything else you talk about in that paragraph

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I should have mentioned that I had hypnagogic hallucinations / sleep paralysis once! Honestly no idea which one of those it was, but it was something like that. I don’t know how I forgot to include this in my post lol

It was after one week of attempting to lucid dream, yet it never happened to me again during these 3 years. I’m a little disappointed by that… I am fairly certain that I wasn’t even doing WILD, since I remember just trying to go to sleep and not holding onto any anchor. But maybe my memory is wrong.

I imagine that it was a combination between staying awake for 20 minutes during WBTB (more recently I only stay awake for a few minutes during WBTB) and the fact that I was not used to the whole WBTB schedule. Maybe that’s why it has never happened again, because I am more used to doing these things now.

But the super duper short story of it was that I got a floating sensation, wind in my ears, a weird emotion/concept about my brain/thoughts being split into two and that one of them was strong while the other weak (I don’t actually remember anything about this, but it was in my dream journal so I’ll just trust myself on it lol), and then a big spooky guy appearing at the end of my bed. I “closed” my eyes so I wouldn’t have to see it, and it did actually go away, but when it ended and I opened my eyes, I realized that they had actually been closed the entire time. I tried falling asleep again, another hallucination. Again, and another. I was getting tired of it and scared, had my cat under the blanket with me for emotional support, and then finally at the fourth attempt I fell asleep.

I was trying to get myself into a dream while I was in these, but I couldn’t figure out how to. I tried visualizing and stuff, but it didn’t work. Maybe it was because I was too worried that I’d get scared and make the hallucinations scarier? They were super tame, but the scariest part was the potential of them becoming worse.

So I do want to have this happen again, but this time to be more prepared for it. I probably won’t be scared as before, since I am actively trying to get them. But I can’t get it to happen again at all lol. It’s been 3 years! Which is why I’m trying to do WILD more, and better, since I heard that it can lead to hypnagogic hallucinations, and then you can get into a dream through them. Turning it into a dream may end up being a challenge, but first I gotta actually figure out how to get the hallucinations to happen lol

Edit: Oh also since you mention the timings! I have mostly been trying to do WILD through WBTB. I have made attempts before bed during my phase where I gave up on WBTB, but I don’t imagine that will work for me. From what I gathered from my dream journal, I woke up around 3:30, had the first hallucination around 4:00, second around 4:30, and third around 4:50, then after I fell asleep I woke up around 6:00. No idea what my bed time was, but it seems like I could try shifting my WBTB to be a little closer to morning! Like you said, maybe 2-3 hours before I wake up. I usually wake up around 9:00 nowadays, so I’ll set myself to wake up at 6:00. I have tried 3:00-5:00 recently, so this’ll probably make a difference. And I might try staying awake during WBTB for longer than I have recently. But hopefully I won’t just wake up permanently if I try 6:00 lol, since some days I have to wake up at that time. So I might actually have to just force my sleep schedule to be more consistent lol…

There really is something to all that discomfort, trying to be perfectly still yet needing to swallow. And the entire WILD method should if nothing else, act as a free MILD/ dream incubation.

I will tell you my “pure WILD” that I had as I call it, happened when I was face down and in a basically angled, uncomfortable position.

First I would say it is better to adjust, swallow, breathe, stretch even, than to try to maintain a still position just for the sake of it. Without overexplaining lol, you will find pockets of stillness.

I am fascinated by the difficulties people encounter when they are genuinely putting the effort in over long amounts of time. Maybe it is cell phones and modern technology, but nobody no matter how perfect or how smart they want to sound can tell you why what you are trying to do isn’t working.

It is easy to see by the level of detail you explain your experiences and efforts that you have put into this, that you have done all the work you should have needed to.

And the pity for me is that what I loved about lucid dreaming and dream journalling was how accessible it was. I have experienced it firsthand how easy it can be in the right environment and approach,

And lastly I admit that it is also not easy for me either lately.

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“First I would say it is better to adjust, swallow, breathe, stretch even, than to try to maintain a still position just for the sake of it. Without overexplaining lol, you will find pockets of stillness.”

My issue with this is that whenever I do an action, I feel like I am throwing myself off of the “path.” Like when I get that strong sensation and my core muscles tense from it, I feel like the fact that I thought about that instead of just my anchor has already thrown me off the path to WILD. Maybe this is just some sort of placebo, but I’ve been assuming it’s why I can never get much further than this step. I have been told by other people online that I need to keep my focus very “vague,” so thinking about any distractions like my heart rate becoming faster is going to make it much harder for me to do WILD.

Swallowing is something that bothers me every 10-30 seconds, so it’s not really feasible to allow myself to do it every time lol. Idk why it doesn’t usually bother me when I am trying to fall asleep normally. Maybe because I fall asleep before my throat gets dry or feels weird?

I’m going to keep trying this though, maybe one day it’ll work lol

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All I have to say there is that I remember focusing hard on how I held my mouth or where I put my tongue, at first it was a big big deal. After a while it didn’t matter.

I only mean to say that I can relate.