How's this for an interesting topic?

I don’t like the whole you can’t control your fate crap. That no matter what you do you can’t change the outcome of things, everything is set. This may be true though. So despite the odds I try as hard as hell as I can to control my destiny. You should too. I also use this philosophy in my dreams. I would really LOVE to see some feed back on this topic. (p.s. how do I get more stars/better rank? :bored: )

I don’t belive in the fate thing since it seams not smart to belive. But if it was so, you cant escape your fate becouse it was your fate to try to escape you fate. sounds strange, but if we are living after a written book I think we would so as told. I like to feel free so I have decided not to belive in fate, but the chance it there

BTW: To go up in rank, just post as hell

Glad you agree with me. But…what is we DO have control over our fate? How does that make you feel?

BTW…thanks…but if I post it will be a good one…not just because I want to go up in rank :cool:

There have been thousands, maybe millions of arguments of this nature, and not a single one has become accepted by everyone. This leads me to believe that the conclusion we must come to is emotionally based in nature, not logically based. Personally, I believe in fate. I can support this, but both fate and free will have the point where you have to “feel” that one is “more” right than the other. I don’t think it truly matters which one is the case anyway, because we obviously can’t tell the difference. “If there is fate, what does it matter? It still seems like free will to me.”, or “If there is free will, what does it matter? It still seems like fate to me.” However, it is true that people tend to say “it still seems like free will to me” more often. In short, my point is that we can argue on or the other opinion, but they can’t be completely substantiated and it shouldn’t influence us anyway. (if you found out that there was fate, would you kill yourself? either way, you never know what is going to happen)

I see your point of veiw. But, isn’t it better to believe you can change and control your own destiny? That way we have a drive to try to do so…better than the idea that no matter what you do it won’t help. It sounds pecimistic to me… :blush:

“no matter what you do, it won’t help” wasn’t implied by my definition of fate. Perhaps we should do that first.

The essential difference between free-will and fate is that in one we define what we want and in the other, the universe defines what we want.

Therefore, fate is not a pessimistic viewpoint because it still allows us whatever we “want” to do.

So which do you believe?

It isn’t important. :content: It is useless to ascribe to one doctrine or the other. However, I find myself agreeing more with the idea of fate.

Thats the point, you are your destiny and what you try to out do, or over come, your fate is still there. Dont be worry unless, you already seen your your death because you can not change that. And even if you do, you matter what your still gonna die. So dont think there is no uncontrolable way of living. U are U and it already happen, you just dont know it, yet…

Sorry but I still hold true to the idea my destiny is in my own hands. If not… then were I not destined to think so? And IF so… I will stick to my idea and belief.

I agree to kmcdonald,if fate or not,it´s the same.I´ll try to quote Schoppenhauer:
“A human can do what he wants,but he can´t want what he wants”

That is somehow very true.
Another theory i like:

Imagine there are endless paralelle universes,and for each decision you have to make in you live two new universes will be created.So,you are walking down the street,and then there will appear a universe in which you go right and another universe in which you go left.So,you have no free will,you have to do all the possibilities.Perhaps your mind splits everytime,and you just think that you are the only you,but in fact you are only a part of the whole mind.That would mean that you are god (well,a part of god).

Whatever is true,i´ll live this life anyway.Perhaps it is my fate to want to live,perhaps am i just living in one of those worlds where i don´t commit suicide,or perhaps i will some day.Doesn´t really matter to me


For me its a question of personall feeling- if you feel you have a controll over your life thats good…if you think its all fate this might be good too.
Thing is we lack the way of checking if we have changed something or was it allready written for us.
How you deal with that?Believing you have influence over it is just wishfull thinking ,nothing else.No way of confirming we have made any changes at all.
I personally dont care really,either way im happy:)

“A human can do what he wants, but he can´t want what he wants”, that is beautiful, exactly what I was trying to say (it is always nice to know someone else has always agreed with you :content: ). The parralel universes theory could “explain” the idea of free-will, but I find that it is unnecesarily complicated and not in accordance wtih the nature of, um, nature :grin: , that is, what we already have determined about how we feel that “things work” or how “stuff happens”. And hubbs, it sounds like your definition of fate is different, more like “we have a final endpoint we can do nothing about, but we can do whatever we want to get there”? Is that right? If so, I would like to hear about it, it is one of the wierdest things I have ever heard… And as far as any “free-will” is concerned, anyone who agrees with the concept, you have to realize that there “free-will” doesn’t exist, and anything you believe in is already limited free-will, aka partially pre-determined. If anyone has any reasons that they feel I am wrong on that point please say why.

I dont have a problem with fate. I still think i have free willl, but some how this situtaion came itself. Remember you don’t choose the things you believe in, they choose you. It is up to you to make best , or do the right thing under those circumstances. If your ever depress dont be, because with you or without you, you always make a difference and whatever feeling you have will always cross someone elses mind to, what i mean is KARMA.

Where did it go b/c i tried to explain what i mean, it comes down what you believe in, but it depends of you face it. Everybody has their facts, but everybody has different results, thats is what keeps us unique. But otherwise if it comes down to do something unatural or anything you can’t see your self doing, its understandable untill you actually face the fact of being, not opinontate before it happens. Y b/c sometimes you can’t control if it happens, thats were fate takes responibility. I still beileve in free choice, but are free choice contracts with our fate. So it intertwines and become infinity. Everybody has it own story and they somehow connect and make sense of all being. Maybe we will figure it out one day… or its already been figured…!

I completely don’t understand what you mean by “fate and free will become intertwined and created infinity”, and I get the feeling maybe it isn’t supposed to be understood?

Its already infintiy were just another part of its generation. I was a little off by explaning what i meant. Infintiy in this world means to me, that every situation proabally happened before, but were re-living each situation we do today as a regular common mistake or we evolve from our mistakes and create new ones. I can go on , but it sounds like crap when i type it. So thats what i mean by infiinity regular common problems and soultions one has seen way too many times. But what i mean by it intertwines is what we do to our everyday problems and situations, and what results do we seek and just keep. I have very complex ways of explaning myslef, inculding puncation problems and lack of proof reading. But i try my best to get what mean across through these words.

hey, just wanted to add something interesting i saw from the movie

It won’t ruin the ending so don’t worry.

At the end the guy from k-pax explains how the universe will continue to expand and then will eventually collapse back on itself and another big bang will occur and it will expand again and then collapse back on itself again. This process will continue on forever. He goes on to say every time the universe expands everything will be the same as it is now. Everything will happen over and over again. It will be like a movie being played over and over again.

What i derived from this is that there would have had to have been a first big bang at one point, right? I know some people will say that it has always existed, but thats the easy way out.

so after the first universe was created we would have had free will, beacause nothing had pre-determined our fate beforehand (or at least not something relating to this theory)

and in all the universes after the first one our fate would have been set.
this also explains why, if we have fate, that so many of our desicions seem to be of free will. it is because at one point we did make these desicions with free will.

I hope this makes some sense.
And i know this theory has some flaws as it assumes quite a few things, but so does most other theories.

That is a easy way to say what i am getting at. I can relate, but i hate to say its from a movie but its suome what similar what i am trying to get at.(i never seen that movie either, was it good? i had doubts) Each event we face today actually happen andwill continue to happen forever. aND THAT MEANS INFINITY! Life is forever in a diverse way.

Ahhh(Sound of refreshed interest from Zaerus) I love it when I start a good discussion. I believe on the parralel universe theory… I even use it in my comic book. Which by the way is almost ready to me posted on the net. Okay. If fate DOES exist, then we were destined to argue about this topic. If it doesn’t then we are just further exploring our limits. So really, this conversation has no negative possible outcome. This works out for the best for every one. You other people out there who look at my posts but don’t respond… Please do. I love to hear from you. I’m not done with this topic, but I’ll wait for a few more post before I post my final opinion. And remember my Quote :gni: