I can not believe this!

Lucid Lounge
1

No offense, but I find this totally sick.

I have no idea why people will think this will do any good. I also think that it is immoral and inhumane (the two things America seems be against) to cheer at another being’s death, and enjoy it.

If Bush does have it done live, he is no better than Saddam, who has also done executions live. If the world is so discusted by Saddams behavior, then why is a repetition of his behavior from Bush suddenly so acceptable.

I also think it will do nothing to detere future terrorists. As we have seen, these people are willing to kill themselves to kill others. I think the publishing of Saddams death by word in newspapers, when and if it happens, will be enough to detere athe terroism cowards away.

But doing it on TV! What have we become? Are we in the old ages? :eek:

2

I think he should be under justice of the iraq goverment.
I mean who suffered most from all this? The Iraq ppl for sure!

3

I totally agree!

The iraqi goverment is controlled by USA anyways.

4

My understanding is that he is already in the legal custody of Iraq and that it will be the Iraqi people who will put him on trial.

Now this may be a bit biased as I am against the death penalty under any circumstances. However, It is a bit backwards to be planing someone execution before the persons trial even begins.

Now, I believe his trial (by Iraq) should be televised in it’s entirety around the world. His execution, NO.

5

Meh. So they want to show his execution, this would serve no purpose other than to show the US government is no better than the days they used to hang people, chase witches and start wars… oh wait they still do that one.

6

Thx milod789, i agree with you!

7

Hehe, btw, the witch thing was mostly England I think, though it happened in America too, just alot less… we also still hang people, not hang, but execute…
Pff if they do show it I’ll bet its on Fox :panic: “Man Vs. Beast 3: Little people vs Kangaroos in the ring!, followed by World’s Craziest Live Executions, and finishing up with crappy new Simpsons Episodes…”

8

I think that was a bit strong. Lets not turn this into an America bashing thread. All countries have dark clouds hovering over their past (So, believe me you don’t want to get into that debate). Now I understand that people are not happy with this administration (neither am I). I understand that people have strong feelings about what’s going on in the world. All I ask is that you don’t lump us all (as a country) just because you are unhappy with our current administration. Also, keep in mind that while you may strong feelings about the current war we have done a lot of good things in the world as well.

9

Although Witch hunting may have been mostly England it’s strange that it’s the Salem Witch Trials that most people recognise. Strange that lol.

Of course they do. But we aren’t talking about the past we are talking about now.

Oh not at all i’m only bashing it’s leader :tongue:

Praytel, seriously i don’t keep up on current affairs. But as far as the current war goes I don’t have much feeling about it other than had Bush not started it thousands wouldn’t be dead.

One of the real problems with bush and blair is that they never really care about the long term effects things have. They only care about the short term. But since you meantioned the war maybe someone would like to tell me whats going to come out of it in the long term. The short term seems to be Saddam out of power and in custody and lots of british and american troups dying amongst other things.

To be honest i think that may have started as soon as Techno posted:

Nearly 70% of Americans

When all is said and done I’m against any form of death penalty anyway, why kill them? They are getting an easy way out through death, why not let them rot in a sell?

10

yahoo! lets feast upon death and disTRUCTION!
the romans did it, WE CAN DO IT TOO!

11

I do not know where that figure comes from. I would not place too much faith in these various polls that come out. I mean 70% is a high number yet, I do not know one person who thinks that.

I agree with you there. The death penalty has never proven to be a deterrent against crime.

You know what I think I might change my mind about this. Perhaps if we did televise executions it would help end them. From what I understand they are not pleasant to watch.

Here is another obscure fact: Did you know that 30,000 people were killed in France for being werewolves. I just saw it on I think the discovery channel a few days ago. Anyway that’s a bit off topic but, since the witch trials were brought up I thought I would share that bit of trivia.

12

Yes, I am also having doubt to whether the “70%” statistic is real. It could be just to critise America.

Although, I do think it is a shame America seemed so ancious to start war. Even the American people! Could you not foresee or even learn from other wars, that the destruction war causes?

He should have gone along with the UN. Fine he would look stupid, but not as stupid as he looks now.

milod789, I disagree. A public execution would not stop other public executions. It would make it more exeptable (still unacceptable, but not so against it), and it potentialy turns a decent govermental system into a threatening system.

13

Interesting spin on it, maybe it would. Just imagine the uproar if people find out their teenage and younger children accidentally watch it.

Yup (not the number though) I’m still trying to figure out which is the most plausible witches or werewolf :wink:

14

Well, I think that many Americans just wanna fuel their anger even more with a public broadcast, and that is unfortunate. Anyway, an execution of an international “bad guy” is going to be something rather unlikely to have people avert their eyes from…

Me…I’m kinda indifferent. I’m not too interested in seeing it, but it doesn’t bother me so much, either.

15

Here’s my personal opinion. The trial should not be televised because then people will probably start to argue about things that come up in it, so instead of having one issue about not televising the trial you’ll have multiple complaints about “This wasn’t fair the way they…” or “They should have…” or “This is stupid that…” If there is an execution, God forbid it should be televised! That is not something the public wishes to see and if that statistic is right (which I doubt) I’m not part of the 70%.

I was going to say more but I forgot what I was going to talk about. Oh well.

16

Technodreamer, I agree with you. It is sick to want to publicize any type of execution. It sends a terrible message. But then I wonder what population they asked to get 70% from. It couldn’t have been from the general public. I know I didn’t form part of that 70% and I can vouch for a bunch of my friends and family too.

Here in the USA the media is so involved with numbers and who gets the better ratings that I wouldn’t doubt that someone would be getting very rich for the rights of that execution. Sickening but true.

17

I don’t think that is true at all. While it may be true of the current administration all you have to do is look at how divided our country is over this to see that your statement is inaccurate. Don’t forget your guy Blair was right there with our guy.

18

Don’t blaime Blair. His head is so far up Bush’s ass he can’t help it. I don’t know anyone in the UK who personally feels this Iraq thing was neccessary.

That said i don’t we will see blair as PM EVER again.

19

I did not mean to sound like I was blaming Blair in any way. I prefer to think of him more as a good ally rather than Bush’s *** as you put it. I think he was a good PM from what I saw of him. Clearly this was bush’s war. Unfortunately, I think Blair’s endorsement is what gave Bush credibility in the US for the war.

There are not many people I know who think this war was necessary in the US (aside from the people at fox news). I just want to point out that it is not the American people who started this war it’s the administration. Even the people who are behind the war are not crazed ( Bush administration excluded). Most citizens that are behind the war only support it because they still believe Bush.

However, now that the war has started we must support the plan and hope it succeeds. While the ends don’t justify the means a free Iraq is a good thing.

Anyway to get back on topic:

I think the trial should be televised not the execution ( If that is what the Iraqi people decide. The reason I think the trial should be televised is it will help the hole world gain closure with this. Also, I do not think the trial should not start until after fee elections in all Iraq. It should be a free legitimate Iraqi government that stands in judgment of him. Not the US or anyone else.

20

well if you’re going to hold that attitude why not torture them?

I’m sickened by people that think the death penalty is wrong and then say something like that… fortunately I think it’s just a popular saying that no one really thinks out…

Think about it.

society is only as good as it treats its worst person now of course saddam is not a member of our society (though we put him in power)… but let’s say a mass murderer… he wouldn’t be a mass murderer if society didn’t drive him to become one.

Or maybe he was mentally isnane… then it isn’t necessarily societies fault… but take the Columbine children. They were totally justified in what they did? Was it wrong? Horribly so! But what do you expect? You take two lower class kids that are constantly bullied… they find solace in violent media and encouragement in violent media… they harbor a fascination with nazism, etc… guns… knives, it gives them a sense of CONTROL… something these asshole bullies have taken away from them.

They get pushed further and further, they’ll snap, you would have too if you were them… they snapped, and what do we do? We’re like “those assholes are burning in hell right now! such horrible people!” what about the ■■■■■■■ jocks? You can’t say they didn’t have it coming.

But then herein is the most important point… why did the jocks treat them that way? It’s not their fault they grew up to thrive on harrassing kids…

we all start out the same… let’s say for the jocks they had permissive parents and were fortunate enough to be “big” while growing up, so kids were afraid of them, so they never ever at any point were “unpopular” they never had any reason not to be bullies, they never had any reason not to do what they did to those kids.

We are products of genetics and environment, very little more. "Take 10 babies and I can give you 10 different people. "

So anyway… what do we do with criminals? Well if there is no hope of rehabiliatating them and they are a threat to society we have no choice but to lock them up. But by no means does anyone deserve to be tortured, put to death, suffer through rapes and abuse in a prison, etc…

WHO ARE WE? Who are we to say that they do?

Who are they to kill? Sure… it’s “wrong” … but whatever… I’ve just illustrated that a person that is genetically stable and who is not treated like absolute ■■■■ by society will not become a murderer… he will have no reason… he’ll have been taught morals, he’ll be okay with working a pointless job, and he’ll be happy because society accepts him.

You may not agree with me on this, I’d encourage you to think through it… who are you? Wjy are you who you are?

I’m anti-scoial… why? Well I was loquatious as a child… but during middle school I was systematically harrassed and belittled and have never really had self confidence since then. I didn’t say “let’s be anti-social” these things just happen. I’m working on changing it.

I was a Christian? Why? Did I choose Jesus? No more than I chose what my mother fed me as an infant. I was told Jesus was the only thing to believe in, that everything else was wrong, who is a little child to refute this? Children believe anything they hear from their parents and authority figures… I am no longer a Christian… why? Not because I suddenly realized that the only reason I was one was because of parental brainwashing and scare tactics as a youth… because I stumbled upon a message board which exposed me to alternate thoughts.

Society made me a christian and a facet of “society” made me re-evaulate my stances on that issue.

Why do I like rock music? Did I pick it? No… my dad listened to it… for a while I wasn’t that interested… then under the advice of SOMEONE else… (who i perceived as cool) i started listening to modern rock… and that led me to liking Tool, which led me to that message board, which led me to being non-christian, etc.

Seriously, look at who you are, and figure out how and why you are that person… all we are is like a machine, we make judgements based upon what we already know… so you know as an infant if you’re programmed to be social and trusting if someone needs a ride and seems sincere, you’d give them a ride… and maybe they kill you… maybe not… what led you to give a stranger a ride? It’s how you were upraised, programmed, your world view depends entirely upon other people’s world views.

SOOO anyway… looking at that… I cannot even begin to rationalize punishing criminals… jail is punishment enuogh… and it’s not about the punishment, maybe they “deserve” it, but it’s simply about keeping everyone else safe from them… if they are decent human beings the guilt they feel will overweigh any punishment anyway… would i want to kill someone if they wronged me severely? My goodness yes, and there may be a scenario where I might… but I don’t pretend it is “right”

I don’t pretend it is righteous to make other people suffer for your morals and your causes… as already said we are no better than the criminal if we relish in his demise.

having said that, where did the 70% figure come from?

and having said that as well, if you were a puppet dictator isntalled by the US and given unlimited power and a country to stablize, it’s likely you might have had your fair share of blood on your hands too.

if people don’t try and think about these things from a larger perspective violence is always going to exist…