If a tree falls in the middle of a forest....

Im sure youve heard the question about a tree falling, and if no one is around, does that tree make a sound(questions with no answer) Its a good question to meditate on, and I reached a deep level of meditation once while concentrating on the question. I havnt been abale to reach that level sence then. Are there any other questions like this, that could be used for deep thought, and meditation?

Does it count if a beaver hears it? What if the tree hits the beaver? Does it count of the beaver screams?

Really, the ‘real’ answer to this is ‘yes’, as thre had to something that heard it (even it was just a fly).

Ok what if a light falls from the celling in a totaly empty warehouse, does it make a sound. Thats the question Ive been meditating on latley.

The point is to reach a deep level of concentration. Like which came first the chicken or the egg?

Well, it still makes a sounds. As in, air particals still vibrate.

How bought this one.

What is the sound of one hand clapping.

or

If a mime falls in the forest and theres nobody around to hear it does i make a sound.

…,but sound can only be heard by an ear, not energy, if theres no one to hear the vibration, or desturbance of evergy it would be silent?

:happy: :rofl: :lol:

Ack, I remember someone telling me there were hundreds of these kinds of riddles that ancient people meditated to, but the only ones I can think of is one hand clapping and the tree. We need someone resourceful like mystic on the case! I think another one was “what is a drop of water in an ocean”… And I seem to reemember the name of the riddles was something with a q maybe… or maybe a d… Heh :neutral:

Here some zen riddles, and teachings. enjoy

ashidakim.com/zenkoans/zenindex.html

I can clap with only one hand. Just use your finger tips to hit your palm.

Tis easy.

When we hear sound, us, the brain, isn’t hearing the actualy sound. We hear what our ear is telling us, and only the ear hears the actual sound.

So the tree thing is wrong, cos it makes no difference if someone was there or not.

yes,
the egg,
what surreal said.

.
According to Terry Pratchett, it’s “Cl”. Another hand sounds like “ap”. :happy:

You could try to meditate on paradox-type things, like if you go back in time and kill your own grandfather, you wouldn’t exist, but then how’d you kill him? (Futurama had a funny answer)

Sleep with your grandmother.

LOL

Haha. That was a classic episode. “Ooh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr. I’m-my-own-grandpa!” :grin:

Anyway, another interesting paradox was proposed by Erwin Schrödinger about seventy years ago, and I’m sure some of you are probably familiar with it already. It’s called “Schrödinger’s Cat”, and implies that if a cat were placed in a box for an extended period of time, anybody observing from outside the box would never be able to tell at any particular moment whether or not the cat was still alive. He asserts that this definitive uncertainty in fact means that until someone lifts the box to check, the cat is neither alive nor dead (kind of a variation on Heisenberg). This paradox was obviously more popular before people were willing to accept that animals had any form of consciousness, but the principal remains.

As for the tree falling in the woods, I think it depends on your own definition of a “sound”. If you consider the sound to be the vibrations in the air which our ears detect and translate into sensory input, then the tree does make a sound. If, on the other hand, you consider the sound itself to be the experience in our brain that results from the above process, then the falling tree makes no sound whatsoever. It’s funny how people continue to argue for centuries about things like this without considering the possibility that people may have their own definitions (or variations) of the descriptive terms used. But anyway, I think it’s safe to say that this riddle was conceived before people knew how sounds were generated, or what mechanism allowed us to detect them, so to a lot of people it doesn’t really have much significance today.

I’m sure there are hundreds more of these out there somewhere, but I can’t think of any right now.

I think “koan” is what these kind of riddles are called

I still don’t really understand that cat thing. Is this saying that all posibilies are happening at the same time until you observe otherwise? So, I’m wearing all kinds of clothes until someone experiences something definant?

There is of course the possibility that if a tree falls in a forrest and there’s noone around to hear it then it doesn’t, for some reason, make any sound vibrations in the air. “How is this possible” you may say. It might happen all the time but only if no observation is made, therefor we will never experience it. For all we know, when noone is looking at a tree it might turn bright orange until someone looks at it again. We’d never find out!

I think that’s what the cat thing’s about. It’s not both dead and alive, it’s neither dead or alive. We cannot determine what it is without knowing, therefor if we say it’s alive then we’re guessing. Even if we guess correctly we’re still just guessing which cannot be made into a statement. We cannot say “This cat is alive”, we can only say “I reckon this cat might be alive”. Point being that we can guess as much as we like but can neither say “This cat is alive” or “This cat is dead”.

Unless it coughs up a hairball and we all hear it! :tongue: