Let´s find the perfect dreamsign

Quest for Lucidity
1

Hi
I hope you want to join in the search for the perfect dreamsign.
First, let me outline once again what the automtization technique is all about (or how I want to do it). You can skip this part if you are familiar with it.

Automatization
It came to me that this would be the perfect technique for LDing in the long run, since it needs effort but is very effective. And no, it´s not the same as simply doing RCs and developing a critical attitude.
So, what is it?
First, you need a DS (let´s say your DS is a dog). Now, whenever you see a dog you do a RC. The difference is that you don´t try to notice all the things that are typical for your dreams, or do RCs at random. In this case, you would develop the critical attitude, always trying to spot things that hint you are dreaming.
Automatization means you don´t do this, but pick one DS and concentrate on it. You do a RC really EVERY TIME your DS occurs, as quickly as possible. After practicing this for some time you have conditioned yourself to do so, now it´s some kind of reflex. When you see a dog, you do a RC without first thinking "hey, this might be a dream, perhaps I should do a RC. You simply do the RC as an immediate response to seeing the dog, you don´t even have the time to think about it.

Ok, so that´s automatization. If you suceed to condition yourself to one good DS you will continually LD without having to do a lot of RCs throughout the day, practicing WBTB or stuff like that. The big problem is: What is a good DS?

The perfect dreamsign
Ok, here are some criteria that the perfect dreamsign needs to fit in

1.STEADINESS
It got to be something that always occurs for your life.
Conditioning needs time, so what use is it to use “india” as a trigger while preparing for travelling to india, when one year later you don´t think about india anymore?
However, this also means that the perfect DS is probably the same for most of us (therefore this thread :wink: )

2.TIME
It mustn´t be something that lasts over a period of time, but something that is only a point of time.
You can´t condition yourself to do a RC every time you find yourself eating a pizza. This would mean that you´d need to do RCs all the time while eating it, which is obviously impossible. If you just do a RC every once in a while while eating it isn´t automatized.
You could change it into something that is only a point of time, though. For example your DS might be “every time I order a pizza/ finish a pizza” etc

3.DREAM OCCURENCE
Of course it needs to be something that occurs in your dreams at least every once in a while
One DS that came to my mind is “every time I put my shoes on”. I think this would fulfill all the other criteria, but unfortunately not this one :sad:

4.DAYTIME OCCURENCE
This is even more important. The DS needs to occur often enough while you are awake, yet not too often.
If it occurs only very seldomly, you will have a hard time conditioning yourself to it. A DS that occurs too often is worse, though.
If your DS is “walking through a door” you will have to do so many RCs that you can´t possibly do it really every time you walk through a door. This way, the whole process of automatization is impossible.

Any thoughts are welcome (but if you want to discuss automatization, RCs or other stuff like that, please use some of the other threads. This one is meant to be solely about the perfect DS, so we can happily lucid dream for the rest of our lives without working too hard for it) :smile:
tapir

2

The thing about the automatization thing is that once it becomes a habit, you no longer do a decent RC and might not conciously question your reality.

3

what about RC when you look at the time? It’s something you do during the day and when you are dreaming the time will act weird on a RC so that’s an extra :smile:

4

I never check the time in dreams, so that would not work for me. If walking through doors happens too often, what about walking into (or out of, or both) a building? This doesnt happen too many times a day, and it surely happens often enough in dreams (it does in mine anyway).

5

I don’t own a watch IRL. :tongue:

What about…every time you see a picture of yourself? We all have that on bank cards, driving licences, student cards etc…At least in my dreams, images on these things are sometimes warped, too. :cool:

6

The moon as far as I can remember never appeared in my dreams until I started doing a reality check everytime I see it. And since then the moon has made me lucid several times :happy: so we can really “induce” dreamsigns into our dreams. Now the moon is my successful DS for lucidity.

7

I don’t mean to say the thread is pointless but surely everyone will have to come up with their own. Although i’d imagine that many dream signs will be applicable to many people.

However, for me the most potent and recurring dream sign is being attacked/persecuted/victimised etc, for example I will be chased by little kids, or attacked by a group of ninjas, or be chased by monsters or animals. Luckily this doesn’t happen to me much IRL! So this gives me a problem in linking RC.

So does anyone have any positive experiences with linking RC to thinking about dream signs etc, rather than linking RC to things which will actually occur to you during the day.

As for possible universal dream signs to link to I think the guy who posted the automatization technique had a few good examples: when you see your hands/feet.

8

Good, because it isn´t :grin:
I agree that there are personal DS, but as I stated in my first post, I think that there might be also something like the perfect (and therefore universal) DS.

Some RCs usually work without paying attention, at least for me. When my clock says it´s 27:95h I get suspicious, no matter wether I question reality at that moment…

But please, let´s stay on topic. If you have more thoughts on why this technique might or might not work, please post them in the automatization thread. This one is to discuss the perfect univeral dreamsign :smile:

Unfortunately I can´t remember seeing a picture of myself in a dream. The time I perhaps check sometimes, but also not very often. Also, I think if I do I usually don´t really read the clocks, it´s rather some sort of dreamknowledge. The “leaving a building” DS seems like a very good one to me. It´s a point of time, I will leave buildings for the rest of my life and it probably doesn´t happen too often during daytime. I need to pay some attention on wether I dream about that, but I think so.
Thanks already

9

Strange… I noticed the opposite thing. When I was only beginning to do RC, I had many dreams with fountains in them. I chose fountains as a dream sign, and I still do a RC every time I see a fountain, in real life, in a picture, or on the TV… But I have never seen them in a dream since.

But returning to the topic… Dream signs for this technique must occur independently, they should not be something planned or predictable. It is possible to choose a voluntary and planned action as a dream sign, but it creates additional difficulties. In the period of conditioning you will worry if you remember to do RC some time before you do it. You can get used to it, and the RC will be associated not with the action itself, but with the intention to do it. But there are no plans in dreams, you can find yourself putting on your cap without thinking of going out…
In fact, I cannot think out anything better than RC every time you see a specific animal. A dog, a cat, a crow - whatever is not very rare and not very usual in you town and sometimes appears in your dreams. And they are easy to notice. This technique doesn’t work with signs dealing with logic and memory, so if you choose something like “old-fashioned dresses” or “changed hairdos”, you can never be sure if don’t miss some of them.

10

Hey! I think that could be an idea?! RC everytime walking out or in buildings, or wheb “appearing” somewhere else( By this I mean, when you wake up in the morning for example, or after a nap or so?) And then always ask how did I get here, and what am I gonna do here?
I think this could be the perfect one for me … I dont have much frequent LDs … so I am definitely gonna give this one a try :smile:
Thanks Xetrov :wink:

hmmm… but I also see the point of ilana, do you think then walking in and out of a building would not be the right one in this case ?

11

How about transportation? Cars, buses, trains, planes. Anytime you step on one, in the passanger seat, driving, or missing or seeing a wrek you could do a RC.

I mean not everyone has a car, but everyone has to travel, right? Unless you are agrophobic and can’t leave the house, but I’d imagine you’d see one on TV or in the grage or outside your house in that case.

Maybe you could do one every time you get in or the first time you get in that you notice?

12

Yeah - building on this idea… how about everytime you are in a new (or different)location? Dreams appear to ‘jump’ from one scenario to another… so you could do a RC everytime your environment is different. eg. go from the office back home - RC when I get home.

13

That sounds like the best idea so far. I agree: I would have thought that most people’s dream change from place to place quite frequently, mine certainly do.

14

Hm, the dream environment changes frequently and suddenly, but this never happens to me in real life (I have to go through doors, use stairs, elevators etc to be in another environment) so it doesn’t really match the criteria of a perfect dreamsign. Leaving and entering buildings: usually when I wake I just remember being somewhere else in a dream without all the leaving and entering. Still looking for the perfect dreamsign :tongue:

15

Well, for instance you could RC when you leave your house and set off for work/uni/a friends etc, then RC when you get there, then again when you leave to go home/to the pub etc, and then when you get to that destination. I don’t see that as being too often/hard to automatize. I mean some people claim to randomly RC every few minutes, and yet I don’t think that brings most people rewards because it is random, and not target to things that might occur in a dream.

16

I dont think there is a perfect dreamsign that counts for all of us, since we are all different. However finding the “perfect criteria” (like the ones tapir spelled out, but perhaps there are others) to what a dreamsign should be could be possible. We can then apply these criteria to our own dreams, finding our personal perfect dreamsign.

17

I can see why some of the dreamsigns I used to try never worked. e.g. checking the time, oppening doors. I still can’t think of a perfect dreamsign for myself but I have a better idea now of things that might work after reading this thread.

I’m going to try the changing environment one. I’m not sure what RC I’ll use though if I’m in a public place. I could ask myself ‘where was I five minutes ago?’ as it’s harder to know things like that if you’re dreaming.

18

When i started to go a school which is like 10km away from my home i have started to use busses daily, so i dream alot about being in busses and now i have started doing RC everytime im in a bus.

19

One thing I started doing when I first got interested in LD was prodding my fingers into mirrors and asking myself if I was dreaming. I do get some strange looks at work lol but in dreams my fingers go through the mirror and I’ve got lucid from it before. I do the same when I sit down at my computer and I guess you could aslo do it with windows etc.

Just a thought :smile:

20

Another thread just made me think of this: How about going to the toilet? Something you do every day, and something you often do in dreams if you do really need to go in real life. Combine with drinking a lot before going to bed and voila.