Lucid EXP

Quest for Lucidity
1

Well this is a thought that I’ve had rolling around in my head for a while, and it goes something like this:

“In order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more lucid dreams.”

Now please ignore the fact that it’s an obvious tautology; I still think it makes sense. Look at it from this perspective: it is usually difficult for someone to have their first lucid dream (barring that he or she is not a natural). We have the first LD and suddenly we KNOW what it feels like to have an LD… plus five points.

This pattern continues and we begin (generally) to have more lucid dreams on a regular basis. If we keep a DJ and work on DR appropriately, this tends to happen much faster. Each lucid dream we have improves our understanding of the phenomenon… plus ten points.

We begin to have more spontaneous lucid dreams. Why? Because we’ve become so familiar with having an LD that we just suddenly become aware that we’re dreaming. This leads to even more lucid dreams in that for each one we have we get more experience in the dreamworld… plus fifty points.

What’s with this “points” thing you ask? Well, the numbers may be arbitrary (and completely wrong :tongue:) but the concept is valid. We gain experience from every lucid event that happens to us. We grow to know the dreamworld by experiencing it. I’ve dubbed this Lucid EXP partly because that’s what it is and partly because I play too many video games. :razz:

Different things, like keeping a dream journal for instance, can also give Lucid EXP despite one not actually having an LD. Notice how difficult it is for one to recall his or her dreams let alone actually have a lucid one if he or she doesn’t keep a DJ. Then examine how much more easier it becomes when one does keep a DJ. Why?

Because through a DJ we are able to, at least somewhat, consciously experience our dreams and the dreamworld. We are able to gain some, somewhat pseudo, lucid EXP merely by recounting what happened to us when we weren’t aware. We begin to get a feel for the dreamworld despite not being actively aware of it so a DJ has the potential to make you very lucid without ever having a lucid dream (though an LD would be far more valuable in terms of experience, is the actual end goal, and would happen eventually).

Everything I just said can be summed up quite nicely:

“In order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more lucid dreams.”

So what do y’all think? And do you think we can start tracking levels yet? :tongue:

2

To be honest, I think such a thing would be completely arbitrary. It feels as if you are saying two things, one 'in order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more lucid dreams", and two, that a point based system can be used to track how much experience one has in lucid dreaming. You have then brought these two things together by saying that, this experience leads to us having lucid dreams therefore begetting more lucid dreams.

The reason I believe it would be completely arbitrary is as no one can definitely say what experience leads to LDs for the collective masses. For example, some people do not keep DJs and yet have many LDs, also some people have many LDs yet have very little recall. On the other hand, we have people in the opposite position, with great DJs and recall and yet no lucid. What about the people who have control over all these things and decide when they want to lucid, but do not choose to do so often?

Personally, I have no had many lucid dreams, does that mean I am inexperienced in lucid dreaming? I know what it feels like to have an LD, I believe I understand the phenomenon fairly well, I have had extensive experience in the dreamworld, I do not keep a DJ and yet have great memory of my dreams, which more often than not are incredibly vivid. How does this fit into your idea? How does it fit in if I tell you that I also choose not to LD even though I know I can produce one with little effort?

You can see, I do not believe that in order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more. I think that in order to have more lucid dreams, the answer is of a bias nature. I believe that to have more LDs you have to understand you and the way that you dream instead of basing your answer off other people’s experiences.

3

I agree with your points entirely, Eilatan, so allow me to explain further.

When I used the metaphor of points, I was not implying that system could be used to track lucid progress. I was merely using it as a method of explaining the concept: over time, there are things we do that increases our capabilities to have lucid dreams. I agree, and have stated, that the numbers were completely arbitrary and wrong. Due to the complexity and the uniqueness of every human being, no set numbers could, would, or will ever be agreed upon despite how nice it would be to see a running total.

That being said, as to the exceptions you stated, they are precisely that at the moment. In fact, the mere relativity of the experiences could be why they are so. What I mean by this is that because of our differences, we advance at different rates, different things are more effective, and some things might not be effective at all. Still, I believe the situation applies to everyone, just with different rates of effectiveness and personal necessities.

As to the examples you gave, the reason for varying effectiveness is, as I have stated, the varying characteristics of each dreamer.

Curiously, you state that “no one can definitely say what experience leads to LDs for the collective masses” and yet what is the first piece of advice we tend to give beginners? Keep a DJ as it will massively boost your chances of having LDs… generally speaking. There are people who this is not effective for, but, judging from what I have seen, a DJ tends to be a very common necessity. At least up until a certain point.

Moving on, you brought in the matter of choice. “What about the people who have control over all these things and decide when they want to lucid, but do not choose to do so often?” Simple. Choice is choice. If one has reached the point where he or she can choose to have or not to have lucid dreams than one has that ability, but this point must be reached first. What experiences one goes through to get to this point vary from person to person.

As to how your particular case fits into my idea, only you can judge which experiences have led to what results, but I would think something along the following lines given what you have told me: your knowledge of what an LD feels like, understanding of the phenomenon, and your “extensive experience in the dreamworld” are the primary foundation points for your capabilities as a lucid dreamer. You needn’t keep a DJ, yet you can easily recall vivid dreams may come from this experience, your mental capabilities IWL (i.e. good memory), or something which you have not stated. Your choice to have lucid dreams when you want them is of your own, and, as previously stated, is not connected to one’s ability to have them, but merely the decision to have them.

I suppose my point became muddled in my attempt at humor: “In order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more lucid dreams. So what do y’all think? And do you think we can start tracking levels yet? :tongue:” I was merely trying to point out that the lucid experience itself is a very powerful and potent experience that is quite capable of fueling itself. After all, one of the best ways to learn is by doing. Still, it may have been better phrased if I had stated outright at the end that certain experiences beget lucid dreams, though I did state this earlier in my original post. As to how effective the experiences are, that is unique to each individual.

4

I agree with your idea. The understanding is important and the techniques are important. But the “lucid EXP”, as you called it, is useful too.

You said “In order to have more lucid dreams, one needs to have more lucid dreams.”
I think It would be better like… :hmmm: this:
“In order to have more lucid dreams, one may need to have more lucid dreams.” Because there are other ways.

5

This is exactly the sort of thing that I’ve been hoping to be true.

…Also it makes my over-RPGed brain happy! :spinning:

6

I apologize if I’m using the wrong sticks to move around the balloons with, but a few things come to mind.

There are quite a few things that could improve the number of lucid dreams, and maybe Eilatan covered this already. Recall, DJ, research, dedicated practice of a specific technique, but people learn how to do things in different ways. One may get better understand and increase interest in art by watching the process, or by visiting art galleries, others by doing, other’s by reading, or others simply by listening to others. All of these things may cause you to produce more artwork, due to either some kind exposure, interest, or inspiration. But depending on the person, different ways are better methods to keep art in mind, all of which may produce more art than the other. I believe that typically successes do not improve anything on their own. It’s HOW you succeeded that matters. If it were true that the more lucid dreams you have, the more you’re going to have, then the quantity of lucid dreams would always only improve. If you don’t support those successes, you’ll likely decline.

So as far as experience levels go, how do you determine which experience is contributing the most? Aswell as how can you apply the same system universally? In this situation, you could have several level 50s with the same ‘level’ of proficiency and quanitiy in art, but they have all taken different paths, and their style and execution is different than one another.