yes, in fact i have seen evidence, here:
scand-yoga.org/english/bindu … tures.html
read it and weep!
man when are you gonna try this, i want to see what happens.
No, and I can tell you, 2 and a half days into it, I was VERY f***ing tired.
3 days I started tripping out, and 4 days I just fell asleep walking. When you wake up face down in a field having fallen asleep going home from a friends house, it makes you want to go to bed!!
philthemn: read it and weep I will not 
Pretty interesting stuff I must admit, and I admit I was a bit harsh with what I said, but this in no way disproves my belief that these people would die without sleep - despite their special meditation techniques. Nowhere in the article did I see any evidence that their pracitices could allow them to forgo sleep indefinitely.
So the state is altogther different from sleep, surely that is at least some evidence towards my argument rather than the other way round, unless you can explain how a state different from sleep can compensate for lack of sleep?
Either way, it sounds like a very interesting technique to be able to master.
I agree that it is different to unconscious sleep, but this consciousness that they can master is more restorative than unconscious sleep. Although now I am a little stuck for sources, lol. And yes i agree that it would be a very interesting technique to master!
and, although I haven’t tried it just yet, I will tell you sum interesting findings i have made.
A few days ago I could not get to sleep until 4:30 a.m. at about 1:00 I listened to deep theta for about half an hour; the (apparently) eqiuvilent of 2hrs sleep. I woke up (naturally) at 11 a.m, this mean’t I had only six and a half hours sleep! It seems that the half hour of theta did have the effect of 2hrs of normal sleep.
The same thing (almost) happened last night aswell.
Damning evidence!
1984:
Do you think that sleeping must include loosing of consciousness?
go on, answer the question!
Wow, calm down! 
I actually wrote out nice long answers twice today, but my computer is having some serious crashing problems so before another one comes along here is my quick answer.
Yes and no. You are conscious for REM sleep (LDs and you can remember dreams), and some people claim to be able to become conscious in non-REM sleep. I somwhat believe them, but most of the time most people are unconscious in non-REM sleep. So IMO it depends what part of sleep you are talking about, as to whether I believe you are unconscious or not! Therefore, IMO a good night’s sleep is probably fairly evenly divided (normally) between unconscious non-REM deep-sleep and conscious REM-sleep.
How’s that?
you r nto concious during REM sleep, unless ur having an LD!
1984 wrote:
I talk about the full sleep cycle.
I asked that because I think that’s an important part of the topic.
If loosing consciousness isn’t necessary then somebody can learn to fully control all of his sleep.
I think about trying LD and meditation during LD-s for this purpose including all my opinions from my recent posts.
I understand that most of people want only their REM to be conscious and I don’t want to press them. I will focus on trying what I said.
BTW I don’t see any obstacles(theoretical obstacles) keeping my consciousness during the full sleep cycle and I will try to alter my sleep pattern again and make it fully conscious soon and during that decrease the amount of sleep.
Yes you are, otherwise how would you remember your dreams when you woke up? If you were unconscious then you would not experience anything which could be recalled upon waking from REM sleep.
I am talking about consciousness in the sense of sentience, i.e. being aware of being aware. You are aware of a dream whilst it is occuring, and of doing things in the dream, and you remember this (to a greater or lesser extent) upon awakening. The only reason a dream seems more hazy in your memory than most waking events is that your brain normally erases the memory of each dream, however you do consciously experience every dream. Otherwise how would you be able to realise that you were dreaming, if you were unconscious.
It says something similar to this in EWLD and other places, so I assume it has been scientifically proven that although you might not be able to control a ND, you are conscious whilst experiencing it.
As for minefield’s comments: I agree. I don’t see any theoretical barriers to maintaining consciousness throughout the whole sleep cycle, but I do see extremely difficult practical problems. You will have to develop some exceptional skills if you want to attempt this, and maybe you could maintain consciousness for a sleep cycle, but for a whole night’s sleep? I would be amazed. Good luck.
what he means to say is you aren’t as “conscious”
technically you are conscious even in “non dreaming” NREM, just if you don’t wake up you won’t remember everything out of it.
consciousness has different layers, immediately before sleep you will (or i do, i should say) experience things that you do not at all seem conscious “during” but immediately when they are over you know that “you” were there “perceiving” somehow, it’s just on a completely different level.
I would say you were unconscious, not ‘aren’t as conscious’, Do you remember sleep paralysis every night? It happens every night.
The whole purpose of an LD is to become conscious!
If you were conscious then you wou.ld be able to start controlling a dream at any point during a dream
you don’t remember SP because you enter the dream body before SP happens.
from what i’ve noticed it goes HH - > HH mini dream - > REM/interactive moveable REM dream.
there would be no reason to remmeber SP because your senses are being stimulated by “hallucinations” so that you are no longer aware of your body, but rather a dream body.
i can attest that you are very much so conscious in NDs, it is a different state of mental functioning, but you are still there experiencing, and sometimes thinking and analyzing… if we are unconscious in NDs then what’s to say that lucid dreams aren’t REALLY lucid, they are just dreams where you think you are lucid, but you aren’t, and you only feel “conscious” because you wake up and the memories are properly integrated?
I think that in a ND my consciousness’s coordinates are somehow messed up.
I mean, what makes an LD an LD? Not controlling, not vividness.
But when you realize that you are dreaming you associate a bed and a life in which you are asleep in a bed and your coordinates are placed in “the right place” and you become conscious. Probably this makes up the feeling of being conscious. Also with that you remember a lot of things.
Probably remembering real life events help you to tune your consciousness to the right coordiantes.
How could you ever experience a dream, and then become lucid, or remember a dream, if you weren’t conscious when it happened? Think about it: if consciousness is the state of being aware of your existence/experiences then when you are dreaming you are conscious.
I don’t know why you think consciousness whilst dreaming should automatically mean lucidity, lucidity and consciousness are related but different things. You can be conscious and yet unaware as to the true state of some part of your body/mind. For example, if you hallucinate (for whatever reason) you can be totally conscious and yet completely fooled about the state of your body/mind (and your surroundings for that matter).
I define lucidity as the state you enter when you realise that you are dreaming. Often with the attendend aspects of dream control, increased vividness etc, but not always. I’m sure most people would agree you can be lucid but have no control, and vividness equivalent to that (or below that) of a normal dream. But I think you are conscious during both normal dreams and LDs.
yeah, and speaking of which, how would you decide to do an RC if you weren’t conscious?
I mean in pre lucid dreams, you aren’t sure if you are awake, and only that RC is what stands between you and your ND and getting an LD.
the act of RCing sends you into a lucid dream, but how can you RC if you’re not conscious?
of course everyone dreams differently, and I certainly have dreams where it doesn’t seem like I was conscious during them, mainly NREM dreams…
do you have good dream recall philthemn?
my normal dreams are very conscious but yes there are certain stages of sleep with “dreams” that seem like they are “unconscious” to me, mainly in the hypnagogic state, it’s kind of a split mind feeling.
im sorry, but your completely wrong. Memories are not a sign of consciousness, they are remembering an instance in time, you were there to percive it, but you wernt consciously percieving it.
If you are conscious how can u possibly wake up. If your already conscious, you would just think; “hmm, I might get up now”.
If your conscious during sleep, you would remember every second of your REM sleep: around 1 and a half hours. Can you remember 1.5 hours of your dreams! I dont think so.
I rest my case. Unless you say something back, in which case my case will be reopened.
Hio, I haven’t read all of the post but I think that this is interesting but I see one problem.
Why do u think the REM sleep are so important? If the normal REM period was just some random thoughts I think the meditation should do the trick. I think that the REM have some sort of pattern of sorting the thoughts and stuff (or doing something) and that it would be really hard manages this by your self when you are lucid (high level ) …And the last time I read about scientist that was testing the no sleep limit the test person died.
As I know there is a guiness record of sleep deprivation and it is 11 days.
psychiatrictimes.com/p980301b.html
This person didn’t die and I don’t know about anybody who broke the record.
I didn’t hear that anybody would had died because of sleep deprivation.
As I read the context the person were under ongoing observing and he had to do a lot of tasks.
He however didn’t use any sleep “replacing” techniques. So if somebody could stay awake so long withouth any techniques then with meditation and LD I think somebody could really learn to reduce his sleeping time and sleep consciously.
BTW I couldn’t even imagine staying awake for just one night without techniques. 
I am very sleepy .