What “Christian” values does the republican party posses that you respect so much? For now put aside abortion. While I think it is offensive for a group of mostly men to legislate what a woman my or may not do with her own body, I can at least understand some of the arguments from the other side. Oh yea, and don’t say no gay’s either as I am going to address that later on.
Now that those to issues are out of the way for the time being, what is so godly about the republican party?
They favor multinational corporations who are literally rapeing our planet of its resources and polluting what is left! Is that godly?
Most are pro-death penalty! “Thou shalt not kill” and “vengeance is mine saith the lord” does any of this sound familiar? It means that, except in self defense, only god gets to kill people. Yet, republicans continue to press for the death penalty despite the fact that we now know many people who were sentenced to death were later proven innocent! What kills me is they know that some people who are executed may be innocent yet, they push for it anyway.
Anyway, I can go on and on with this but, I want you to tell me what you think is so “Christian” about the republican party. I think you guys have been fooled by republicans as I can not find anything that is remotely godly about the republican platform.
Separation of church and state is one of our most fundamental beliefs. That is what keeps us from becoming a theocracy like Iran. This country was built by people from around the globe. All from different cultures and possessing different values. You mistakenly have the opinion that democrats are anti-Christian because they believe in that Separation. That is untrue. They just rightly believe that they have no right to impose their religious values on the public at large.
You mean only as long as they at have the same values as you.
Now is where we are going to discuss gay marriage. Convince me that allowing gay marriage will somehow harm you or infringe on your rights and I will get behind you on that.
You say you are concerned about the direction the country is going in. What has you concerned?
I used to be a republican but have decided I’m really a libertarian. I think socialism oversimplifies things and is antiquated. However, I think US capitalism will be self-limiting at some point int he not-so-distant future.
The long and short of it is that I don’t think it makes much difference who you vote for, at least in the US. They are all a bunch of liars, and all end up doing the same thing.
You just have to pick your poison. Do you want to move toward fascism with the Republicans, or do you want the government to be a ‘Mommy State,’ run by the democrats.
Liberty requires responsibility . Liberty means liberty for all, not just those who agree with you. When I was a child, the USA was the most free country on earth. I wonder if that is still true? If so, then it is due to the fact that the whole world is full of power-hungry governments.
One closing thought. Homeland security, no wearing your shoes to the airport, your wife being groped by ‘security workers,’ GPS systems mandatory in your car, black-box mandatory in your car, your neighbor can call the cops on you for child abuse with no evidence, and with no evidence you lose your children and are guilty until proven innocent, if you make an improvement to your house, the government punishes you by raising your taxes, you have freedom of speech so long as you agree with everyone, you have freedom of religion, and nobody is allowed to make fun of your religion so long as you aren’t christian, every time you turn around something is becoming illegal because it is unsafe for you personally, not necessarily for those around you, drugs are ok so long as they are the state sponsored ones, namely nicotine and alchohol, even though they are the most deadly.
Now does that sound like a free country to you? Welcome to the USA.
I’m a liberal, but I do support the democrats, since I’m not too far from having some of their beliefs.
Religion and State have to be seperated, that doesn’t mean you could use the religion(s) to form and idea, but you shouldn’t force it on others. Religion can’t be used to solely rule a state, did you see what happened in Afganistan? We can’t become like them. As for gay marrage the gov’t has no right to say what people can do behind closed doors, they should be focusing on more important issues, not our private lives.
I think the Patriot act is a little extreme, we have to figure out something that doesn’t take out our freedoms as much. We are under attack, but we shouldn’t hinder our freedoms that set us apart in the world.
BTW On the political compass test I was exactly as I said. I do care about the economy, the companies can get rich, as long as they hire me and don’t harm the consumer (tape worm pills anyone?)
I agree with you the patriot act has gone too far. Most of the arrests made under this act have turned to have nothing to do with terrorism! The erosion of civil liberties has been a long time agenda of the conservative republican party, long before 911.The act is supposed to expire this year and I hope it does.
I agree with you the patriot act has gone too far. Most of the arrests made under this act have turned to have nothing to do with terrorism! The erosion of civil liberties has been a long time agenda of the conservative republican party, long before 911.The act is supposed to expire this year and I hope it does.
I will tell you one thing that scares the crap out of me, is the lack of privacy we have. I did some research on the net trying to locate an old friend and I was amazed at the amount of information I was able to retrieve about that person. None of it was bad but, all of it was private information that was no ones business. We need a pro privacy movement here.
Listen, I’m not rock-solidly sure what I am. And I agree with what someone said earlier, along the lines of, we shouldn’t catergorize things like that, and we should have more vote on specific issues. I really do understand what you’re saying about the seperation of church and state thing, that’s why God gave us free will, to choose him, not to be forced into Christianity. But at the same time, when the country is run by people who don’t believe in morality, you can pick and choose what’s good and what’s not. Abortion, homosexuality, fornication, adultery is all wrong, period. Yes, that’s my opinion, but I just happen to belive that’s the truth. And of course people would love just to say that I’m enforcing religious legalism, and that what they do is their business, but in the end, it’s sin plain and simple. It’s sin for a reason too, most of these things you can research and find that, in the long run, it causes serious problems. God doesn’t point out sin for the fun of it, in the end none of it is good, even for us. Anyways, I know that you are still going to prop up your equal rights stuff and all that, but this is what I believe to be truth and I suppose if others don’t agree with you(even if you’re actually right), there’s no easy solution. As for the other stuff, I’m probably going to attempt to stay out of it for now, because I will admit, at least on a lot of this political stuff, I’m a bit out of my league. I just don’t know enough about all of it.
I find it very telling that you would pick those as major sins. While you think those are the major “sins” we commit I think there are far more heinous sins out there.
I think that to allow even one child to go hungry is a sin. Yet millions of men, women and children live in abject poverty every day!
Pollution is a “sin”. Do you know that because power plants have polluted our water 18 states have put out advisories warning people not to eat any fresh water fish due to mercury poisoning. Of course there is global warming. Aboriginal tribes in 3rd world nations are inflected with illnesses because of our (the developed world) pollution. They are getting sick and dying because of us!
Nuclear proliferation is a sin! We currently have enough nukes to destroy every living thing on the planet many times over. Yet, your “godly” president wants to build more powerful nukes!
Anyway, I think you get my point. While I worry about things that are destroying our world and may well lead to our destruction. Your major worry is who is $%@* whom. Don’t you feel a little silly. If not, you should!
Well I asked you a similar question above which you have yet to answer but I will try again. How do any of the “sins” you listed in the above posts harm you in any way?
Well I asked you a similar question above which you have yet to answer but I will try again. How do any of the “sins” you listed in the above posts harm you in any way?
You say that as though it were just some annoying loophole in the law. It is truly sad that you do not understand the most basic concept of freedom. Perhaps you should move to Saudi Arabia where they have things like beheading for things like adultery. Perhaps then you will be happy!
Yes, it is true that you have the right to believe what you want. However, when you impose your beliefs on others that is wrong.
Really? Then how come it’s illegal to commit murder? Perhaps it shouldn’t be. I mean, I wouldn’t want to impose my morality on others by making them not kill people. After all, it’s in the Bible; “you shall not kill.” Sure sounds like a moral belief to me.
And as for how fornication and all that other stuff “is hurting you in any way,” those acts disrupt the fabric of our culture, and have changed our society drastically over the last 50 or so years. It’s true they have allways occured, but the open acceptance of them has not. Societal structures have been cracked and chipped away due to rampant disregard for a moral code in the area of sexuality. I would say that is harmful to everyone.
Moreover, I find it offensive that I cannot go one single day without having to be subjected to the overt sexuality of others. People call me ‘quaint’ and ‘unrealistic’ because I simply want to keep the discussion of, and the actions pertaining to sex between my wife and me. Therefore, that has hurt me.
Finally, as for abortion, you asked how it hurts me in any way? Perhaps it doesn’t, directly. But neither does it hurt me that someone was murdered on the street near where I live last week. But should I be ambivelant? Oh well, it was someone ELSE who got killed, so it’s all good, I guess. Cracks me up that the same people who want abortion to be legal are vegetarians who think we shouldn’t hurt animals. Can you imagine if we started extracting ‘fetuses’ (which means babies in latin, btw) from animals to do testing? PETA would be all over it.
So all I’m saying is, don’t dismiss what he is saying just because he has a standard of moral absolutes.
Kerry and Bush were both ‘Skull and Bones’ members, the whole “Liberal vs Republican” thing is a big pantomime designed to make you think you have choice when really you don’t. I’m from the UK but as far as I’m concerned the situation is the same with the Conservatives and ‘New’ Labour.
Alex Jones put it best in Waking Life:
“What a bunch of garbage: liberal, democrat, conservative, republican. It’s all there to control you! Two sides of the same coin. Two management teams bidding for control, the CEO job, of Slavery Inc.! The truth is out there in front of you, but they lay out this buffet of lies. I’m sick of it and I’m not going to take a bite out of it, do you got me?!”
What a surprise! That is the same argument people who were against blacks becoming people, women voting, blacks voting, and ultimately interracial marriage used.
Please, do explain in detail how what people chose do in the bed room and with whom will break down the fabric of society.
No you are not harmed by it. Just offended by it. There is a difference. Perhaps you should choose different friends. I mean if their values and things they talk about are so offensive why socialize with them.
By the way the TV and raideo has two buttons. One turns it on and the other CHANGES THE STATION!
I have already said that I understand both sides of the issue on that one.
Religion does not equal morality. Many strongly religious people do seriously immoral things. Vise versa many people who have no religious affiliation are very moral and caring people.
I still find it amusing that, with all the true dangers we face, your moral compass revolves around sex. Yet you wonder why noone takes you seriously.
Its a sin because that is how the fabric of society has been woven. If we had been brought up in a society where this wasn’t a problem we would be having the opposite discussion!
I do not think you link is off topic at all. (Though I suggest using the URL tags so it does not mess up the thread.)
In fact I think it is very telling of the mind set of the radical Christian right. What they consider to be moral issues.
What is driving me insane is that noone other than myself seem to consider preserving our environment a moral issue. I am more frightened by the state of our environment than who marries whom. If we do not take care of our environment marriage, gay or other wise, will be the least of our concerns.
With the uses of stem cell research we may some day cure horrific diseases which so many people suffer from but, said research has been stifled. These people will be forced not only to live with debilitating disorders but, are also condemed to suffer with no hope that a cure will be found! I think that is immoral.
We have the resources to ensure that every man, women and child has health care, food, clothes on their backs and a roof over their heads. Yet here in the US and throughout the world people are living in abject poverty! That is immoral to me.
Yes… I agree that the distribution of wealth across the world is unfair… and generally immorral due to the fact that the wealth is created off the backs of the poor…and keeps them poor.
I can’t think about it too much because it really pisses me off !! These world governments behave like the governments before them and for all the history and mistakes that have been made they still refuse to learn and carry on self preserving on the shelf of their own futility.
I understand what you are saying Milod789… gay marriage and abortion are the least of america’s (and the world’s)worries right now!
Looks like someone else got here with political compass before me… damm! I love introducing people to that. ahem I am Ringt/Left -7.32, Authoritarian/Libertarian -7.56. That makes me pretty left and liberal, however I have way to many political arguments on other threads to get involved in another, I am here to learn to lucid dream and have fun, not to discuss politics.
Here’s an easy solution: leave the government out of it and let people choose for themselves.
If you don’t won’t to recongnize gay marriges in your church, fine! If you want to claim that people who have pre-marital sex are sinners, fine! If you want to go door to door and beg and plead people to adopt your opinions, FINE! But don’t get the government involved in it. It isn’t your job to punish people for their “sins”, that’s God’s job, remember? This country was founded on the idea of seperation between Church and State. The freedom to choose. Don’t like it? You have the freedom to move.
[size=34]I bolded the last part 'cuz it was like a cool rhyming thing. Yeah, this kind of mars the seriousness of this post, but c’mon, it’s tiny.[/size]
I wasn’t aware nobody took me seriously. That is a ploy used by leftists in the USA all the time to marginalize their opponents. Attack personally the person making a statement, and try to make them look like a fool to obscure the message itself. Moreover, you are wrong to assume that my moral compass revolves around sex. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with sex in and of itself. Indiscriminate sex is a different story. There are a great many things wrong with this world and the people in it, myself included.
Remember, I didn’t bring up fornication, homosexuality, etc., the original poster did. And while I agree that these are not the only moral issues that exist today, the DO EXIST.
But let’s shift the topic slightly. What exactly is it that you think we should be so afraid of in this world? The terrorists? Hunger? The environment?
I have a news flash for all reading this post: You ARE ALL GOING TO DIE. Today, tomorrow, 50 years from now, perhaps, but you, your pet, the squirrel outside your window, and every other living thing on this planet is going to die.
Therefore, why is it silly or foolish to be concerned with matters of the soul, when the eternal soul is all that will survive this whole mess?
If you do not believe in the eternity of the human soul, then God help you… oh wait a minute… you probably don’t believe in God. So I will just have to say I feel sorry for you, and that I understand why you would be so concerned by the temporal.
But I don’t want to be too hypocritical. Perhaps Milod is concerned about other things, and not the ones I mentioned. Let’s hear them!
Davion: Thank you so much for the support. Milod: Not much I can say, Davion pretty much said it for me. I agree with you on the envriomental, disease research kind of stuff. I never said I was up for throwing a bunch of smog into the air and laughing like a dimwit, of course we should protect the world that God has given us. I would also like to say that I am not religious at all. I despise it. I am not a Pharisee. I just happen to love a God, who happens to love me, and I happen to believe that sin taint’s peoples’ hearts, and has serious consequences. Lastly, you seem to have grown very hostile towards me, please don’t. I don’t want their to be bad blood between us because of this topic. You’ve always been very helpful to me and I like you. So know that just because we disagree on some issues(even if they are very, very big issues), I don’t mean any bad feeling towards you.
Milod: I agree completely with you. And its interesting how you said that environment could be a moral issue, never thought about that. And yeah, I guess the link wasn’t quite as off-topic as I made it seem.
Anyway,
Well, isn’t fornication just sex before marriage? I didn’t think it referred to adultery or divorce, etc. (correct me if I am wrong). In which case, I do not see your point.
This is more sarcasm/joke, but I think more people have been killed than just Jesus.
It’s not my question to answer, but if you look at some organizations like the Boy Scouts of America, that is there exact reason for excluding atheists and agnostics and homosexuals–‘they are not good citizens’. Check out the FAQ at BSA Legal. One article even said a representative stated that an atheist would find a wallet with money in it and take it, while a religious person would return it to the owner.
PS: If hell exists, and most believe it does, then why do we punish criminals when we know they will be eternally punished for their sins?
I did not think you did believe that. But, the political party you support do blatantly pollute our lands. If you look at things like the “healthy forest act” and the “clear skies act” you will see they are slanted to support big corporations and do nothing to help our environment. In fact it makes the problem worse.
Now don’t get me wrong the democrats don’t get a free pass on this either. That is way I believe we need a viable 3rd party.
The bottom line is we could have alterative fuel sources today but not with the parties we have. The republicans (in general) support big business and allow them to rape, pillage and pollute our planet. However, democrats support the unions that work for these multinational corporations. Thus the problem never gets solved. In this case however, the democrats are the lesser of the two evils in my opinion.
There is nothing wrong with that at all. You have the right to your beliefs as I do mine. You have the right to believe that (pick your sin) is wrong. I just strongly believe that religion and politics do not and should not mix.
I did not mean to come off as hostile. Sarcastic perhaps but, not hostile. Please have no fear in this area. I enjoy spirited debates that is all. I may try to change you mind on certain things in threads like this, just as you will try to change mine. Sometimes one of us will succeed and sometimes when all is said and done we just have to agree to disagree. I do not take any of this personally.
Yes, the last thing anyone would want would be for anyone here to have a grudge against another, especially if it carried into other topics where it was totally irrelevant.
On another note, what do you think about the ‘wardrobe malfunction’ of last year?
!! These world governments behave like the governments before them and for all the history and mistakes that have been made they still refuse to learn and carry on self preserving on the shelf of their own futility.
