i think this was a very important point, and i’m quoting just to highlight it
welcome to the forum fractal advocate 
Thanks. 
I suppose I got a bit off topic. >_>
However, I think the answer to the question do DC’s have rights is ultimately going to be based on either a religous or moral answer.
I would, however, argue that the consequences of acting as if they didn’t have rights when they do deserve them is much less horrible then the consequences of acting as if they do have rights when they don’t deserve them.
You can place this in either punishment terms(if they are people, God will hate me and I will go to hell, or I will have negative karma from their deaths or whatever) or altruistic terms(if they are people, they don’t deserve this to be done to them) and it works equally well.
Thus, if one follows either of these approachs, I believe one should act as if they did have rights, not neccessarily because they do, but to follow the safer/less nasty path. However, if neither of these apply to you, then I guess there’s nothing stopping you, although in that case I sure hope you don’t gain omnipotence in RL…
I have no quarrel with anyone who … “mistreats” their DCs, and I may even try it myself. In the future, I’ll probably be working off of the assumption that dealing with people/entities in a more positive way will result in a happier disposition— sort of like whether people decide to kill the monster that’s chasing them in LDs or make friends with him.
I’m an atheist, and I strongly believe dreams are no more than internal constructs that come from within your own mind and affect nothing but your own mind. I’ve never even heard of a reason to believe otherwise that I could take seriously to be blunt. But if anyone feels that killing DCs is wrong, I think there’s a pretty simple solution: don’t do it.
Good point.
You’re right, if you think there’s no chance of them being alive, my argument doesn’t hold up.
I think if you believe there’s a slight chance they’re alive, though, it’s wiser not to risk it.
Very true.
Also, a point I was wondering. If it’s evil to kill DCs, does that make you a good person for resurrecting DCs? I mean, it’s your dream, you can do whatever you want. Couldn’t you just go around to local graveyards and resurrect entire fields of people, or would that just make you even more evil, some kind of necromancer?
Ooh, interesting. I’m not sure. If this was RL I’d cite that there’s a problem with space to take a growing population already, but as far as I’m aware there’s no such problem in dream world.
I think this would depend on how you ressurect them to a certain extent. I mean, if they’re back to full life that’s one thing, but if they’re zombies which go around eating people’s brains, I’m not entirely sure it’s a good thing.
So I’d probably partially raise one’s spirit or something, (assuming they have them) and ask it if it wanted to be ressurected.
This just raises a further question to me, though: If you ressurect dream characters, is that truly the same dream character, or just a copy created like you’d create any other DC if you so wished and had practiced sufficently. Do DCs live beyond death, and if they do, do you have the power to make them return?
This wouldn’t neccessarily rely on if you belive they’re alive or not: Figments of you imagination could be wiped out, or they could just be sealed away.
And… I go off topic again.
pasQuale wrote
We have tried several times to keep things on topic. Thank you. Perhaps your friendly reminder will keep things from getting off topic this time.
To state my position again since it (again) got lost in the OT religious arguments:
I believe that DC are not entities or beings. They are just images in your mind. All animals (humans, frogs, insects, etc.) have one thing in common which is free will. I am alive. I can choose: do I want to go on the internet today? Do I want to go outside and enjoy the beautiful weather we have? DC’s can not. They are completely at the dreamers mercy. Either consciously or subconsciously you control everything the DC does. You can create them out of thin air, alter them, turn one DC into another much like a sculptor molds clay. You can make them jump, dance laugh, cry at will. I beleive they are not alive. Since I believe they are just images then they have no “rights”because in my opinion they do not exist.
So do Dream Characters have rights ???
I guess it all comes down to what you believe. If you believe that your DC are entities and in some way alive then they have rights just like a real person. If you believe (like me) that they are just dreams and none of it is real then the DC does not have “rights”.
I would disagree with this argument. To me, that would imply that if you have the ability to control someones mind, that person does not really exist.
Now, mind control isn’t that easy, but still it’s not completely impossible. I mean, considering that the brain is made up of electric pulses and chemicals and so on, so it shouldn’t be completely impossible to alter to one’s will and actions on the fly.
This kind of technology may be a long way off, or civilization as we know it might not last long enough for it to come about, however, that still doesn’t make me believe that if you had that technology available to you they would cease to be a person.
Yes, however it is not just a mater of mind control. I believe the DC is completely dependent on you for its actions weather you do it consciously or unconsciously.
It’s not far off, not at all… it’s probably already here or in development.
Taking a non paranoid stance, I am saying it is possible, is possible now, and will be pursued/developed if not already so.
From a paranoid viewpoint I’d say they are already trying to use it or experimenting with it… or ARE using it… the NY blackouts come to mind… why was everyone so chummy and peaceful and friendly? That just really struck me as odd, no looting? That isn’t the NY/big city way is it? Even after seeing terrorism… hmm.
educate-yourself.org/mc/
this delves far too much into the conspiracies to be good for anyone’s mental health but I do believe there is some truth in it.
I mean, for example, they can see what a person sees through his eyes, they did it with a cat, you can find it on BBC, if anyone greatly wants a link I’ll look for it.
So how long till you can hear what they hear? Hear what they think? Then you can eliminate those that think dangerously… if you can pickup on their general thinking frequencies, as thoughts are more or less electricity, how long till you can try and beam thoughts into peoples heads?
It doesn’t really seem like science fiction to me… don’t they already have computers/robotic things that you control with your thoughts? I read of a game in which kids had to concentrate on moving a car to make it move… and like… a man with a mind controlled robotic arm or something similar.
assuming that we share a dream with someone, then are our minds not more or less interfacing? It’d be easy to control someone who isn’t lucid… and them acting upon your expectations could easily be a mixture of telepathy and your mind creating a dream model to replace the “real model” of them since you are so bent on taking control of things… if it’s just a fake model then there isn’t much issue with controlling it…but… who knows, if our minds link our unconsciouses are bound to cause quirky feedback in both our dreams…
and if we dream on a dream plane well then who knows.
what are the motives behind doing bad things to dream characters?
also there is such a thing called mind control.
What you do is influence your vitims decisions.
You could use phycology, hypmotize them, or even drug them.
Also, lies can affect your decisions.
If you start restricting yourself in LDs it really defeats the whole purpose. I am very surprised so many seem to indulge in little more than picking flowers, in their LDs.
Im in the view that commiting realistic style violence to DC’s is wrong, because LD’s being so vivid and such, you could probably carry that over into real life, not that anyone here would do that.
People sometimes use LD’s to practice for things, so whats to stop practicing violence on LD’s and taking that into real life?
But hey, grabbing a DC by the leg and throwing him in the air and blasting him with an energyball is fine… 
Just because you enjoy dream violence doesn’t mean you will enjoy real violence, where you can get properly hurt.
Just saying some people may have trouble telling the difference from Dream violence and Real violence, but in this case that person could be mentally unstable.
I’ll admit that senseless Dream violence can be fun, but I just hope that the person knows that Dream violence is alot different from Real violence, but if you know that, then reach for that Mini-gun and go go go!
I suggest that we change the topic from “Do DCs have rights?” to “Is it right to kill, rape etc in a dream?”
People (especially milod789 and Rush just now) have been thinking about the effect of dream violence on the dreamer’s mind. Let’s open up the debate officially to accomodate them. 
R3m0t, there is already a current thread with that topic. The last post was on May 1st.(my timezone)
This thread may be similar, but it’s a whole different animal. 
The author has decided this topic, and lets please respect DutchThor’s thread and stay on topic.
Actually I beleive it was Clark Kent and Holy Reality that started that part of the discussion. Though I obviously have opinions about that and will be happy to debate it in the killing dream charicters thread.