The red baby thought something along the lines of, “i wonder what it’s like to make a mistake?” of course it couldn’t, so it started all over. which brings up the idea of the importance of being able to destroy to make room for new creations. Perhaps reincarnation is just a concept born of the reality of the creative process. As a particle of energetic wholeness, being able to experience the painless and worryless state of oneness is a given. But the possibilities are limited.
I think what we are trying to do by incarnating over more lifetimes than one is to be in that creative and very vulnerable space of being imperfect and unwhole in order to learn to create from a space of wholeness and therefore expand our possibilities to infinity and beyond. If it truly does take us several lifetimes to achieve this level of transcendance, then i think we’re just beginners, or not cut out for it, or having a lot of fun trying again and again. Maybe we do win in the end and just want to explore another possiblity starting from scratch, kind of like og Zelda
I’m sure there are lots of beings like you Eonnn, that say, alright,
I’ve had enough of the game of life, and decide to stay in an unlimited lucid dream realm for eternity.
btw i love the idea of the original thought that initiated the big bang. i still think we wield that power, but we’re so mired in the daily ins and outs of our world that it slips right through our fingers. Ever seen Akira? that’s what i’m talking about.
Anyway, I don’t really ‘believe’ much of anything, so I’m not counting on anything outside of my own personal experiences. Although I always thought that the most ‘likely’ afterlife would be simply living your entire life all over again exactly as you have already. But this could only happen in an absolutely infinite universe (Our perceive ‘finite’ universe being an illusion created by our lack of knowledge of deeper mysteries of the cosmos.) full of infinite possibilities. So that after you die, untold trillions of years and possibilities would play out in the infinity of the universe. So eventually there will be another Earth exactly like this one in every way – because anything that can happen eventually will, and infinity is enough time for anything to happen; and Earth, as we know, already can happen. And then, even more wildly, another person exactly like you is born; every bit the same. And even the brain chemistry and everything will be the same, so the makeup of consciousness will be identical to you. We may already be living our billionth lives, and we’d never know. Lived them out in universal bubbles separate from this one, and long dead…
Whether or not an exact copy, bit-for-bit, is essentially ‘you’ or not, I guess is up for debate. This isn’t an idea I take very serious, obviously. This is more like a half-baked 3:00 A.M. sort of speculation. But I don’t think it’s any less likely than some of the other stuff being discussed in this thread, hehe.
Yes, I belive it BUT esoterics belive in something more.
This after-dead-LD can be forever but if you belive that this is only illusion your after-dead-LD will end and you will go to one more level up in spirit relam.
What relam? I dont remember doh I will try find it out leater. One TIP: Anyone heared anything about PARK? Akash Library? Budda’s Dimension?
I believe there are an infinite number of alternate realities, there are so many ways that life could place itself out, from big things like a reality where your parents never met each other so you weren’t born, to realities where only a small thing is different something like you decided to go for the red ball on the pool table instead of the blue, which led to you losing the game and buying the beer afterwards. Think about it, if there are alternate realities, there would have to be an infinite number of them because there are soo many things which could be different. There could be a reality where everything is the same, but a snail decided to go left instead of right, as a result you didn’t end up stepping on it. It’s quite mind boggling.
What gets me though, is that you can’t really think about it. Infinity is an impossible concept to get your mind around; this is why the vast majority of thought systems are based around finite ideas about the universe. Even religions that have the concept of ‘eternity’ don’t really try to grapple with infinity; it’s just too much. Eternity is just endless time, one dimension. Infinity is time, space, universes, maybe even dimensions… possibilities of course. What matters most to me isn’t what dimensions are ‘out there’ but what dimension do I want to live in. If at all possible, I’d like to experience the better outcomes of most possibilities. Though it’d be nice to know what the other possibilities might be.
Sort of like the Philip K. Dick novel The Man In The High Castle. He had a lot of ideas about parallel universes. He in fact claimed to have had remembered another universe. That’s what this conversation reminds me of, though.
I’ve always thought that if we – humanity – changed just one aspect of our thinking, the world would be a vastly different place. If instead of thinking about what is, we thought about what could be. Engaged ourselves more creatively in life. But I’m off on a tangent…
I just watched all of Zeitgeist, and all I can say is wow…I want to leave the US right now! But then if I do, what chance will we have. People who know need to stay here and change the world. We’re the last hope, it’s up to us now God, I hope we’re not too weak. I’m starting a club at my school next year…It’s going to be about this. I’m so PO’d Right now.
could heaven just be an LD and jesus as a spirit guide?
and, a little weaker, purgotary an ND and hell an LD which always loses lucidity soon after gaining it. ok that’s crap. but the heaven thing is a feasible. after all, what could be possibly be better than an LD?
A Robot is just a pile of objects without Electricity. So what is the true essence of the Robot, the mechanical parts or the electricity which actually gives it life?
I skimmed through this thread and it reminded me of a movie I saw a few years ago on IFC called Waking Life. It’s about a guy who begins having very deep, philosophical conversations with strangers, and later realizes that he is dreaming. Once he discovers this, he tries to wake up, but keeps having false awakenings until he realizes that he must be dead.
You can find a transcript of the movie here, and this part in particular talks about lucid dreams.
Oh so thats what’s supposed to have happened in the end…
Waking Life is an awesome movie even if it is a bit hard to understand. I actually got this idea of an LD heaven after watching the movie “what dreams may come” with Robin Williams in it.
HURRICANE: it’s been proven that the brain activity continues for 5-7 minutes after death. And if you know a bit about dreaming then you should know that it is entirely possible for people to experience a lifetime in a dream when only 2 minutes have passed. Take into account that if your dead the brain doesn’t need to do other stuff like regulate oxygen and blood, it is quite possible that when we die we will experience a dream heaven or another lifetime in a dream. If you don’t believe in the existence of the soul then thats up to you, but personally, i know it exists through many personal paranormal experiences, meditation, dreams and research. Science is also starting to prove it exists, especially in the area of quantum physics, as they have recently developed devices that can record and measure your energy signature/aura… interesting stuff here’s a link: video.google.com.au/videoplay?do … quantum+li fe&total=734&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Scientists also record a loss of body weight in every patient that dies of roughly 21 grams which is said to be how much the soul weighs.
they say that when we die, we go into a dreamstate where everything is a projection of your own mind. If you do not realise that you are dead, you will remain here until your own projections start haunting and terrorising you, at which time you will be reborn in the physical realm. We all know that if you think of something bad happening in a dream, then theres a good chance that something bad will happen pretty much instantly, and then theres no turning back it just goes down hill from there. So when you reach the point where your getting so fearful and experiencing a lot of pain in your mind, you will be spat back out into a new body in the physical realm. However, if you realise you are dead and that everything is a projection of your own mind, you can transcend into the higher realms and merge back with universal mind or you can chose to indulge in temporary humanly pleasures within the lucid dreamstate.
So by the looks of things, we LD’ers may have one up on everyone… looks like we’ve got a bit of an advantage when it comes to dying and the afterlife
This thought crossed me a long time ago after watching ‘waking life’
BUT my theory is that you’ll only be able to experience it, if you can LD now…so when the time comes you’ll realize…but then never be able to wake up and you’ll know
There are a lot of theories out there, but no one knows what happens in the afterlife until you experience it yourself. Only time well tell unless somebody cheated death. So all of these theories that you see now could be all false. We just don’t know for sure.
After watching Waking Life entered into a bit depressive state of Solipsism (the pseudo-matrix-philosophical notion that your mind is the only thing in existance). I thought through the whole thing, I even thought of killing myself like the mythological god Odin did, thus he discovered the ancient runes, but than, a startling realization came, and if I may borrow kT4alls’ last sentence:
We just don’t know for sure.
The key word for the title of this topic is the word IS. Here you can find why using this word or similar words isn’t so good (or even straight-BAD) at describing or telling stuff. It IS called E-prime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime
I’ve seen the Tibetian Book of the Dead mentioned above, and it reminded me to recommand you all Ubik by Philip K. Dick. Deals with exactly the same ideas.
I just got back from work and was thinking the exact same thing the entire time. It’s not the first time i’ve had a strong belief in a ‘pseudo-matrix-philosophical notion that your mind is the only thing in existance’… but I get home and see that this thread has been revived… call it coincidence or synchroncity but it just confirms to me even more that this is not just a theory and it really does make you quite depressive when you come to realise/witnesss it happening.
It’s like RL is exactly the same as a dream except the only difference being that its more solid and structured so things can remain the same. Everyone is just a manifestation of my subconscious and it p*sses me off because its like everyone is in on it except for me (everyone knows what im thinking/feeling). But much like in a dream, the characters wont admit to it… and i don’t think thats because they dont want to admit to it… its because they dont know… the subconscious is part of me afterall, and if I dont know the truth about reality then neither does it. But that right there is the burning question… why don’t i know the truth about reality? why have I just been put here without a decent explanation as to what is going on.
I think only Rasputin will understand what I’m talking about here because you really do have to experience this puesdo-matrix concept for yourself… it happens when you are very aware of everything going on around you and everything seems to be happening in synchronicity with your thoughts/feelings/intentions but most of the time in a symbolic way. This is the best link I can find to explain this concept: probablefuture.com/matrix.htm
Unfortunatly for me, I’m an intellectual schmuck. All those interesting ideas like the Simulation Argument by Nick Bostrom, Solipsism (by a greek dude named Gorgias, Descarted to some extent, Philip Dick, The Matrix) are THE BEST mental masturbation a man or a woman can have. Who knows, I’m still young and still have planty of time to wreck havoc in my mind with drugs, lucid dreaming, Philidickian and Lovecraftian prose and the likes.
Akorah, I think that you are very lucky for experiencing reality this way. Well, maybe not lucky but special You might wanna check a book called Cosmic Trigger by Robert (Pope BOB) Anton Wilson. It’s an autobiographical tale about a person who conducted many experimetns in the exciting realm of “Brain change willed” (i.e Tantra/Yoga, Aleister Crowley, Hemisync, Drugs etc.)
My speculation concerning solipsism were, as mentioned above, more “intellectual”, meaning no experience, except for sadness when I began to ask “What if…”.
Just imagine, the last nano-second of your mind, and the whole universe just goes Poof, like a TV screen. It shrinks to a dot. I would like to recommand a story by the SF author Frederick Brown, dealing with the Solipsistic theme: https://infohost.nmt.edu/~shipman/reading/solipsist.html
Solipsism is like a good conspiracy theory- while can’t be proven, it certainly can’t be disproven.
Yeah I could do with a good book to read… will check it out
that short story was funny… i never knew this concept was known as Solipsistic… I feel a lot less insane now knowing it can be categorized.
I like that quote “Solipsism is like a good conspiracy theory- while can’t be proven, it certainly can’t be disproven.” made me laugh which is exactly what i need right now… or is that just going back into ignorance?
I could say something so ZEN-like concerning the statement of ignorance and laughter, that it would blow the server down, unfortunetly I can’t find the words to say it, Allan Watts is a lot better at that than I am.
Laughter is a pure state of mind- one of the best, especially when it comes to wicked-weird metaphysics such as this. Laughter is the antidote to inasnity here, I think. IMO the idea of solipsism is both ignorance and a profound truth (hey, here’s a minor version of the Zen thingy I wanted to say) because it tells us how little we know and above all that, how ISOLATED we are from each other insert deep belly laughter here.
yeah that reminds me of one of the major virtues a buddhist has… humility.
they consider humility to be of great importance… but why? is it because they know this truth and humility is the only escape? or something else? they seem to rank humility as being more important than say honesty or compassion… why?
God, I hope we’re not too weak. I’m starting a club at my school next year…It’s going to be about this. I’m so PO’d Right now.