The BIG WILD Topic - Part XII

Quest for Lucidity
41

No problem. :content: I am glad that i was able to convey a different perspective.

Sometimes when i have HI, but am sort-of-aware yet lack the intent of WILDing, the HI will snap me awake, sometimes scaring the hell out of me. :tongue: Other times, though, i do actually catch myself before fully slipping away. But as i was trying to say: perhaps your awareness-save can be developed to the point where you notice the HI (dreamscape forming), but not so much so that you wake from it. Then again, i just realized that experience of such would probably make you used to it to the point where it doesnt wake you up (if that is what is happening).

Meditation is a very usefull skill. I first pursued it because of the focusing/self-discipline aspects, but then as time passed i found the healing, clear-mind, and various-awareness aspects of it as well, the former two helping very much with stability and Lucid-onset. It is a skill that proves more and more useful. I never dreamed it would help with lucid dreaming (lol pun), but it does, and i am glad that i am already pretty good w/ it. I guess i sometimes take it for granted though. :tongue:

Anyways. The trick, i think, is in having your awareness to the point where you see the HI, but let it slide. The more one thinks, i discovered, the slower the HI progresses to vivid HI. Eventually the HI will get strong enough (perhaps the first time) so that you can add intent-to-LD to the awareness of dreamscape, and then the imagery will expand to a full dreamscape with you in it lucid. For me, it seems that the HI is like a picture, surrounded by total ‘nothing’ (like you cant look at it directly, the picture always centered in view, kinda) and then the nothing disappears, the picture sort of ‘zooms in’ and next thing i know im in a dreamscape. Its terribly unlike what i had in mind WILD’s were.

However, this is all personal WILD technique, and knowing that its not the same for everyone, i must urge other WILD’ers to describe their own, to help show the variations behind WILD, between people - not to mention it would be very interesting to hear about how others do it. :smile:

As for the blobs of color thing…I just read a thread, and in it Basilus West described very well the difference between phosphenes and HI. Personally, i have always wondered what the colored blob/waves/‘light’ that i would sometimes see, like after lying down for a bit in darkness, eyes open or not. Based on my WILD experience, albeit limited, i know enough that i must stress that the ‘color-waves’ or ‘blobs’ are not HI, and not even close to what is needed to pull a dreamscape out of. The HI needed is very distinct, like the interior of a room, or an open green field…I felt it would be useful to mention it in the WILD topic. Props go to Basilus for pointing out the distinction between the phosphenes and HI. :content:

I was just suggesting that the TV might help you get better HI, so that you could have higher chances of WILD. :smile: Hey, if youre lucky you might see a re-run (you could plan this) and then if it carries into your dream/HI you could become lucid. Like, while falling asleep you might remember that the TV is on and become lucid in a TV-influenced or, more likely, a FA. I might give that a try even…

Interesting, the WILD and DILD possible recall difference thing. Hmm, personally i think that recall with WILD is worse than with DILD. This may be due to at least two factors though: My being only fairly experienced w/ WILD. And my usually falling into ND’s/non-lucid-vivid-HI afterwards until my alarm (my ‘save’ :tongue: ) goes off. Also, theres how many of my WILDs are unstable, and how others are short lived despite stability, which may have something to do with it.

Dream recall, i would guess depends on at least two factors: Your devotion to recall (ie DJ, how much you reflect upon waking, etc). And on how soon you woke from the dream in question.

I dunno, theres probably far better advice in the big dream recall topic. If there isnt one, there should be lol. Its a very huge aspect of dreaming. :tongue: I think its pretty relevant at least on a personal level, because some of my LD’s are hazy, despite being LD’s. Some say it is due to low stability and/or lucidity/awareness, and i would agree with those people. Stability and Awareness definetely play a big part in dream recall, not to mention dream control.

Im not too sure, but they might be MILD’s, or maybe WBTB’s of a pure nature. Do you go to bed w/ LD intent or just go back to bed? If the latter, they could just be spontaneous LD’s, possibly due in part to youre being fairly awake already (which i think may be one of the main principles in WBTB). At least personally, WILD involves HI, but like right before it turns quickly into full dreamscape, zooming and then me suddenly ‘in it’. You mentioned, however, that the dream seems to form around you? In that case, it may very well be a WILD. Going back into the dreams is either intent/MILD or WILD depending on how the process is like. In itself, going back into a dream is an impressive skill.

Hope all that was insightful. :smile:

42

A problem: I can enter into a sleep state no problem now. :dream: I have been doing it every night and sometimes during the day now but I can’t seem to induce any lucid dreams. Anyone have ideas as to how? :help:

43

Sentient: I do WILD just like you :cool: I first get a picture of something and that picture then sort of “zoom in” and I’m now standing in a dreamworld and I’m very lucid :cool_laugh:

this might be a bit off-topic

And I seem to be able to re-enter dreams by accident somehow if I really liked the dream. It goes like this: I dream something and I then wake up and if I really want to go back into the dream or if I thought that it was really interesting. Then when I fall asleep I get the same dream again. The annoying thing about this is that I can only do it if it happens by accident :sad: I have done it to re-enter a few LDs, but it mostly happens in NDs and I don’t get lucid.

This seems to happen a lot when I have the intention of writing down my dreams, but I fall asleep while trying to remember the dream. I will then have a dream about writing down my dreams. When it happens it feels a bit like I’m dragging the things that I was thinking about into the dream with me. If I could figure out exactly how I do this I could mostly likely LD pretty much at will :cool:

It feels a bit like a WILD but with the exeption that I loose consiousness while falling asleep. This could also explain the LDs I get where I’m lucid from the beginning of the dream but I can’t remember WILDing.

And that’s all for now :content:

44

I am determined to WILD.

“Did I move my real hands from a dream?”
I have done this before. I woke up and because i was walking in my dream my hand moved up. I looked at it closed my eyes quickly and span around in my dream. I got another few minuets of lucidity out of it before I woke up fully.

45

I’d like tips on mastering my technique. I have always tried to WILD, but I always failed.

Just recently I have been able to keep my self awake until the onset of HI/SP.

When I go to bed I pretty much repeat to my self “I will wake up in the middle of the night” instead of saying “I’m dreaming.” And believe it or not, I’d wake up at like 5:00 AM from this last night. But tonight is the first time I plan on setting my alarm to WILD.

I tried it two times now. The thing I don’t get is why once it only took me about 2 minutes to get into a dream and how yesterday I was in SP for what seemed like 30 minutes and no dream came to me.

Here’s my method.

I wake up about 5 hours after I fall asleep. I open my eyes, look at the time, do an RC, then go right back to bed. I repeat to my self “I’m dreaming, I’m dreaming” then the HI will kick in, it’s never vivid, usually just an object on a black background. Once I saw a duck, another time I saw a fat kid with Morpheous(matrix) style sunglasses. Weird it is but I just keep telling my self I’m dreaming or I’ll do math.

By math, I mean I’ll usally take a number like 6, multiply it by 4, then 1/3, then I’d square the number, then I’d do something else. I prettymuch just do a chain of math, get a huge number like 11,236 and try to get back to 6. I know it sounds corny. But I am a math major so I can do math much faster and easier then the average person.

I do this math until SP kicks in. When SP kicks in I stop doing the math or telling my self I’m dreaming. I find it incredibly easy to stay consious after SP kicks in. I will usually hear the sounds that people hear when they are in this state. It can be frightening but it never awakes me.

When I went into SP the first time I did the “i am dreaming” thing, I got into a dream in about 2 minutes. When I did the math I was in SP for no exageration, 30 minutes. I tried to wiggle my toe and it awoke me.

What are some things I can do to help ensure I go into a dream from SP?

46

Ok this is what I did. I set my alrm for 4 oclock and I was going to use the #sixty technique. Anyway, it took me 40 minuets to fall asleep .I seem to have thsi problem where I get so exited that I try too hard.

When I woke up, I felt I had only been napping, although, I knew by the way I was refreshed, that I had been sleeping. This feeling of napping is from the above problem I explained.

So I opened my eyes and looked at my clock. It was seconds away from beeping. I was so suprised. It was almost like I had timed it sub-consciously. This is a great feature, and I plan on using my internal alarm in future.

Prehaps the feelign of only napping was due to how exited I was.

So I started saying “1, I’m dreaming”, “2, I’m dreaming”, up to sixty. Then I closed my eyes and started the same thing again.

I couldn’t get to sleep even, and in the end I got up and went and had a drink.

I gave up, and went to sleep. I woke up with an interesting and weird dream.

47

Hallo, I hope someone can help me with this:

I’ve red many WILD-technique’s, but (almost) every technique has a part in it in which you have to ‘follow the HI’, ‘imagine a white/dark dot’, ‘look at the patterns you see’ etc. etc.
But my problem is that I can’t visualise things (not even a white dot or something like that). I’ve tried the visualisationtechnique described in ETWOLD, but I’ve had no progress.
Sometimes I can feel my body shake and things like that, but at that point I don’t know where to concentrate on, and I wake up.

So: does anyone know a WILD-technique without any visualisation in it?

PS: I’ve succeeded in WILD once with the ‘counting yourself to sleep’-technique, but I took me 1,75 hour, so i’m not too happy with that. I think it took that long because counting keeps you too awake.

48

i got to the point yesterday that i got so deep that i manifested a hallucination… it was crazy.

I think I was saying “I recognize that I am dreaming” as a mantra, and I’d say it every 4 or so breaths.

So… I got in/out of a lot of HH and … you k now, of course I was losing consciousness during them, like I always do, then jolting awake.

But one time… somehow, my eyes were open, and I saw this white thing, like my pillow, floating in front of me, and there was something that looked like a small man meditating on it.
It scared the hell out of me and I sort of bolted up… to a degree… as an instinctual reaction to it.

man… so weird… it looked like a spider at first though, i’ve no idea what it was…

then i had to take 4 benadryl to get myself to fall asleep and it took 2 hours for them to work :sad:

i’ll just go to bed real late tonight even though my first day of school is tomorrow, that should thwart my insomia.

49

my WILD attempts are getting better and better each time but one thing that bothers me is that I sometimes have trouble breathing. It’s kind of annoying and I always wake up… :sad:

Any suggestions?

50

Yes that can be annoying. You have to keep in mind that it is normal and you don’t really stop breathing. You body is falling asleep and going on auto pilot. I first got though this by just ignoring it when it happens and let myself go deeper. Then I learned to ignore my body altogether when practicing WILD and just focused on things in my mind. When I did that I had no problems with breathing at all.

WILD at BED TIME

I have met a lot of people who do not like the WILD/WBTB and therefore are either turned off to WILD or think they can’t WILD because they can not get up in the middle of the night for what ever reason.

Anyway, while I agree the WBTB method is much easier to do it is not the only way. I used to suffer from insomnia and I could not bare the thought of waking up in the middle of the night. However, I really wanted to learn how to WILD so I was determined to become successful with it at bed time. In time I had successful WILD ‘s without prior sleep. I was so happy when I found this forum and read stories form other LD ers who also do WILD at bed time. I learned even more from these people and further refined my technique.

Anyway the way I do it:

First stage it is important to learn how to put yourself into a trance.

I learned from practicing mediation then later self hypnosis. I would suggest using a tape to help yourself with this. Yes you can memorize a routine and talk yourself through it but, I think a tape is much better at first. This is because it reduces how much you consciously think. With a tape all you have to do is follow the exercises you don’t have to think about them. Once you are in a deep trance you move on to:

Second stage: From here you just use what ever WILD technique you like the most. Counting, attention to breathing, visualization, attention to HI etc. I prefer to focus on things inside my mind like visualization or HI and turn my self off to external stimuli. Anyway, as you do this you let go of all your other thoughts and go deeper. Soon you may experience what I call the hypnogia which is where you may hear strange sounds, see vivid images, feel like you are being pulled in one direction. At this point it is important to ignore these things and let go of even more of your thoughts. Thinking about these things will just get you stuck in the hypnogia or worse start to wake you up.

Keep in mind that it is entirely possible that you could slip into a dream without experiencing the hypnogia at all. Again, if you spend time thinking when is _______ going to happen you will impede your progress. So don’t think !!!

The crossover: Here is where it is very important to achieve what we call in meditation no mind. I think this is even more important when practicing WILD at bed time. At this point your objective is to keep letting go of all thought except what you are focusing on and you should be doing that with out thinking about it like you are on auto pilot.

I know this all sounds complicated and it may be at first but once you get a routine down it will seem simple and you will be able to do it without thinking. You may go through all of this in a mater of a few minutes to an hour. I suggest if you have not made any progress after an hour let go of the thought a go to sleep. Very often this will have MILD like effect and you will wake up in your dreams later that night.

Anyone else have thoughts or experiences they would like to share?

51

thx milod

52

when you say

you never really explain how to get into a trance.

53

Lol hey all, sorry ive been gone so long…busy!!! :neutral:

Jarod:
Its good to see that others WILD like me. Something ive been trying to figure out for sure is the process before the image. Like, usually for me i just happen upon the faint image, and then somehow it gets all vivid when i zoom into a part of it or just the whole thing as a dreamscape. I want to develop my technique to the point that i can take faint hypnogogic imagery and work it into vividity so i can WILD it.

[OT] :smile:

Dream-re-entry is a skill i wanna develop too. I would say youre already pretty developed in that intention has some success for you. I guess that a lucid dream-re-entry would require multiple skills.

I can sometimes dream re-entry but for me its usually just an ND or a part of a deja-dream.

Hehe, i get that too all the time, falling asleep while trying to remember the dream before getting up and writing it. Its because i believe that theres better recall if youre still in position and whatnot, hehe. Good luck with figuring that possible LD technique out. :smile: Maybe a reality check every time you record your dreams?

[OT]

Nice technique. Lets see, in my personal experience, vivid hypnogogic imagery (by vivid i mean very very detailed imagery, like you can focus on it in detail, versus fleeting images that are hard to grasp) seems to come naturally. Its like i’ll be in SP and thinking about manifesting imagery to focus actually works!

Or, you can do what i end up oftentimes doing: pulling a FOBELD: False OBE Lucid Dream. Basically its like slowly, but surely getting out of your body. I dont know how to describe it, but it works. Its false OBE because you just wake from them easy and you can totally tell its a dreamscape. Think like you can feel yourself floating inside your SP body, then, gently urge yourself to roll out. Once you hit the floor or whatever youre pretty much good to go.

Good luck!

Sorry, i cant really think of anything. You could try silencing your mind and not thinking about ANYTHING but keeping your awareness so that once a dream hits you’ll ‘wake’ (consciousness, or thought will return) and you’ll be lucid. However, this takes some mental discipline, say experience with meditation and trance states.

Milod

I must say that that is an ingenious technique. Too many people have tried and failed trying to figure a WILD from initially going to bed (myself included). Youve here done a very good job in describing a technique to pull off a night-WILD.

Bendrummin

A trance basically is like no-thought only deeper. By deeper, i think the main distinction would be that time becomes like a blink of the eye. The waking-life experience of the trance state will be like your memory of it. Then again thats my personal interpretation of it. Im not a practitioner of self-hypnosis (which i think is a better doorway to trance than meditation) so im not going to try describing it. :tongue:

Meditation is like, the other half of LD (at least in my personal experience) because it teaches you how to clear your mind, and how to have undeviating focus on something. Basically, its like mental discipline that helps to dispell the mental ‘chaos/haze/deviation’ that hurts LD’s, and is basically annoying IRL. :grin:

'Luck

54

Posted rougly the same thing in a different thread, guess it would be better here though.

This happened about a week ago, and I haven’t tried to reproduce it since. I didn’t know at the time, but what I was doing was a WILD with a minor change. I did this AS I was going to bed for the first time. Instead of going to sleep for 5 hours, wakeing up, etc… I just did it while I was trying to get to sleep. I had been resting for about an hour, just thinking about stuff, and telling myself I would become lucid. I lied on my back, closed my eyes and looked to the area above and between the eyebrows. And just relaxed and looked to that point…after about 30-45 or so seconds I heard this loud ringing in my ear and felt myself being pulled from my body! It was absolutely the strangest thing I’ve ever experienced in my life. Just so damn wierd to the point of being a little scary. I snapped out of it after a couple of seconds because of the shock. This was the first time I tried the WILD thing, and I want to know what happens after that and even if thats suppose to happen while WILDing…

Thanks :smile:

55

Don’t worry. Yes that is supposed to happen. I often feel my self being pulled out of my body down through my feet when I WILD. If you just let yourself go You mot likely would have found yourself standing in your dream room fully lucid.

Once you get over some of the frightening experiences during WILD they will become very cool. :cool:
Congratulations on getting so close on your first WILD attempt. :thumbs:

56

I am going to try again. This time I will relax more, and it won’t matter if I don’t get an LD.

57

Hey guys,
I have been having a bit of trouble with the Counting method of WILD. you see I am either trying to hard to induce or not trying hard enough to induce. I have been getting low lucidity dreams even since I switched to WILD (one every night so far!). But I think that they are DILD because I include in my counting “1. I am dreaming 2. I am dreaming…” so in my dream I say “hey I am dreaming” but then fall back into a ND.

so my questions are.

  1. How do you keep aware of your sleeping without keeping yourself awake or making yourself goto sleep.

and

  1. Will the lucidity levels increase in DILD? or am I better off keeping up the wake induced.

thanks.

58

Personally I think the most misundertood/difficult part of WILD is that part where your mind is ballenced between conciousness and dreaming and you have to get the hook that pulls you in.

Hers a tech I use to WILD…

  1. Your normally awake, or have just awoke from a dream. Close your eyes and think about a dream senario.

  2. Make sure you imagine a scene populated by at least one person.

  3. Let your mind drift dreamily but spin out a situation where you are watching this person doing a job (for example a woman behind a bar in the bar there are just a couple of other people drinking alone at tables).

  4. In your mind direct your view like you’ve just waked over to the bar, stand right infront of the woman.

  5. Hopefully she’ll look up if she doesn’t imagine catching her attention. When she looks up look her directly in the eyes, lean over the bar slightly so your a little too close. Really look at her.

  6. Don’t say anything to her even when she might ask you a question, look at the detail on her face especially the eyes. If this were a real situation it would be a very “charged” (not normal) one and I think its this that does it for me. A short burst of an electric feeling and your vision clears like someone has turned the sun on, and your there staring at the real dream character.

If you wake or find your not seeing the scene in clarity enough, your not deep enough in sleep, its a hard act, the balence just between waking and fully dreaming but with practice it gets easier.

Also see lucidcrossroads.co.uk/WILD.htm WILD page at the crossroads

And lucidcrossroads.co.uk/gatekeeper.htm gatekeeper technique at the crossroads

59

I had a very different WILD this morning:

I wonder if I only dreamt that I got SP or did I go into a dream even if I had my eyes open or maybe I had already entered a dream when I opened my eyes :confused: :help: I did look at my clock before I got the SP, but I can’t exactly remember what happened :bored: Has this happened to anyone else? And I think that I will try this the next time I get SP in the morning, because I haven’t been able to WILD before during SP unless I got HI.

60

i have been trying WILD for… a while now, and ive never managed to get it to work, even staying with my body asleep and my mind concious for around 2 hours… Its never worked, not once. It seems to me like i have a problem with switching from my real body to my “dream” body or something. I have no trouble concentrating or relaxing, i just dont know where to go from where im at. The farthest ive ever gotten was basically entering REM (or i think that was what it was), because my eyes were vibrating like crazy. Another thing, I dream in color but i dont see colored HI when attempting WILD. Any help would be appreciated. I will attempt again tonight with any techniques i read.