yeah lol. or inexpensive rather. gerlerter’s got the “cheap” part down lol.
Indeeeeeed 
I might try the REM dreamer, I just don’t have the cash right now.
Dude, you guys are weak.
You claim that this does not exist-
how do you know it does not exist? Cuz everybody is different? Because it requires patience? THEN IT IS NOT THE FRIGGIN HOLY GRAIL.
The holy grail is the tech that works everytime, reguardless of experience, for everyone! So don’t start changing the meaning. If it doesn’t exist, I wanna see you prove it.
I’m resurrecting this topic, for anyone who agrees.
The requirement-
Don’t post randomness. Just post that you are
a. signing up
b. got an idea
c. got results from someone elses idea.
GOT IT!?
Anyways, I’d like to propose 2 things-
a. My MOLD tech.
Thats Music Oriented Lucid Dream.
Find a song that you can listen to alot, and that you can go to sleep to. Try to make sure you have no associated memories or feelings with it. Then, at some point during the day, listen to the song, alone- make sure there are no distractions. Listen to the song, and think about lds, do alot of reality checks, and think of possible scenarios of becoming lucid. Then, think about that song or listen to it going to sleep. Thats it. Try it.
b. Work out like crazy. Excercise until the only thing on your mind is sleep. Then concentrate on dreaming.
I agree, we don’t know that there couldn’t be a holy grail technique. Actually, it’s possible that there isn’t a perfect ‘technique’ for everyone, but a ‘device’ could be constructed, or a chemical supplement could be created that would work for everyone. It also shouldn’t be a requirement that everyone can use it to succeed with no effort, but it should be true that 90% of the people who use it are able to LD successfully after… 1-2 weeks. Its not reasonable to find something that is ‘perfect’, but I think there is something out there that will give the vast majority of people LDs easily.
If enough people are interested, I may be able to create something that would really help our search. The problem with our trying to discover this technique is that we don’t have a good way for a large number of people to contribute to the experiment and progress with it. I could write some software that would:
- Allow you to create any number of new ‘techniques’ (could really be any means of inducing an LD)
2)Allow users to upload their data (whether the technique worked or not after a certain period of usage) for that specific technique
3)Allow users to view a graphical representation of the data collected for each technique (i.e. a line graph).
4)other stuff, suggestions?
this would be a bit of work but I do have the time since it is summer and if enough people are interested I’ll do it. I think that this will allow us to make distinct progress with our search and if nothing else, to show users the success rates of various techniques.
interesting, i’d gladly help 
I’ve already posted my holy grail, you guys can see if it’s holy grail worthy for yourselves if you wish.
So in short consider me signed up and if you want anything like feedback or something from youre ideas just let me know.
Cool, so we’re good?
Haha, I campaign this idea for a while, and few people care or do much, and only after I give up, does stuff start happening. 
hi. its very quite on here… had an idea tho. why not make a huge survey asking people to write a list on things which have helped them LD and then compile all the most successful, herbs, techniques etc… and compress them all into a quick easy to follow technique/ diet.
Obviously if you get 100 people saying ice cream works (or whatever!) then that would make it onto the list/ technique/ diet.
Just an idea…
THAT is so very TRUE!
…and i comment, and no one posts for two more months 
…
It’s a good idea to find a tech/supplement that would work for everyone, but it’s kinda like trying to learn every baby to talk straight from the womb, isn’t it?
Sorry to disappoint you kid… but it’s a bit futile to try and find one medicine for both the flu ánd cancer. What i’m trying to say is… some people will have certain things blocking them from having LD’s, or difficulties they’ll have to master, before being able to have a LD. A holy grail tech or suppl. to have these people LD inmediately would be way too strong for those who are naturally inclined to have LD’s, so it would probably have a very negative effect on them.
I believe we’re just looking for the philosopher’s stone here - in vain.
Concentrate on the “gifted” people then! 
Nah your right- one technique can’t work for everyone and even if it did it would still be easier to find out what works best for you.
Maybe the best way to angle this would be for everyone to post their own holy grail technique here and then every week try someone elses and see if it works for you.
This information could be used to catagorise people into tech groups…
Hey thats not a bad idea actually
I mite copywrite it 
I’ve already posted mine somewhere. 
There’s a good topic on this, which divides people in groups based on sleep characteristics and motivation.
I remember this! damn not my idea after all then!
Havent seen Treader here for a while tho.
Everyone seems to have conceded that there is no one holy grail technique for everyone… i agree.