I don’t get it. I mean, once you LD alot, wouldn’t you stop doing drugs? I don’t do drugs, so i was wondering…
Why not make an experament out of it?
Introduce your stoner friend to LD’s and keep him/her doing them without drugs (if you can). Is he/she off of them by the end of 3 months? if so, How sucsessful were the LDS?
I wouldn’t say LD cures people who participate in taking drugs.
But if you wanna know something; “drugs” the term is actually used not only for things such as cannabis, cocaine and the sort but also medicines and also food as it is a type of drug everone needs. Just like some people prefer one thing to another thing it is only through govermental laws does it require you to put a negative label to what you call a problem.
personally I just like LDing but as you will know to get good dreams you need good sensory input. I like experiences whatever kind. Also if you know tibetan yogis and shamans who were the first known to use LD’s used to take drugs such as opium and magic mushrooms to enhance their experience.
mmm addiction perhaps? have you ever had an addiction?
for a long while, i had an addiction to a variety of opiates, (pain killers, and sleeping pills).
as samzen stated, there are those who take drugs to enhance their sleep, or their dreams, i was such a person. the enhancement these drugs had on my dreams were phenomenal. if certain events didnt take place, i would still be taking them, greatly im part of the enhancement they would have on my dreams. (coming off these drugs had nothing to do with my introduction to lucid dreaming)
and having known and knowing many “stoners” - and at one point in my life being one - i highly doubt lucid dreaming would replace drugs. instead, i whole heartedly believe that drugs would be used to compliment or supplement lucid dreaming.
x
Oh, so it ethier enhances their experiance or they can’t quit because of addiction? Well no matter. I just want to see how many people quit Drugs over all. I would need 25 participants,(50 would be ideal) to work this. What do you think of the experiment suggestion?
noble idea and all… but i do not think you are going to find that many people on this forum who will expose their stoner chums to ld’ing - and i highly doubt any more then one or two of those will follow through on lucid dreaming and keep in practice with it long enough to reach the level of mastery you are asking. (take this website for example, over 7000 members, only about 2000 active members - who knows how many have visited this website, were introduced to the concept, and lost interest after they couldnt get it to work after the first two nights, or when the realized it would take effort on their parts - and effort, not something stoners love giving)
so i think i would be really tough to perform.
in my opinion, and expirience… this expeirment would bring poor results.
x
I would have to agree with elegie X!
If you are trying to change peoples behaviour by replacing their drug experiences with LDing, it just won’t work. LDing takes perservence and patience… drugs are quick, easy and a pretty much a ‘guranteed’ experience. Also, they are different experiences.
Then you have to look at the reasons why people are taking these drugs … and for some reasons, LDing just might not cut it for them!
But good idea, and it might work in a controlled environment with many counsellors on hand, but trying to run it through this forum would yield little to no results.
you see, a lot of them are what we like to call very, very stupid. they’re stupid.
firstly - who is we? and to whom are you refering?
if you are calling those who use drugs stupid - i kind of want to start throwing handfuls of pennies or small, jagged stones at you.
that is just as bad as saying “all escaspists are losers that just cannot handle life, and should all be cast into the sea, so they will not have to deal with - and they are stupid too” or “if you drink alchohol, you are stupid and are dumb too”
just because you do not agree with a certain practice, do not run off insulting people.
what may or may not be acceptable varries from culture to culture - and this is the “global” ld4all forum… so you are going to get people from all walks of like here.
drug users, and non drug users alike.
as i have mentioned, i have used drugs. so i am strongly offended by your narrow mindedness.
i will be the first to tell you i am not the best educated here on the forum, but i am certainly not stupid.
have you ever read anything by poe? shakespear? chaucer? or hell, any pre 19th century european?
keep in mind broken tao, that many of the yogis, laoshi, gurus, masters, and monks of the east also use “mind altering substances” to aid whatever it is they do.
are these people stupid as well?
x
Amen to the above post
I agree broken sword did you think what you were saying ?
Taking what you guys call “drugs” helps me to f*** live in this society. It enhaces my point of views and opinions, gives me perspectives on things I have never had before.
Unless you try it, do not judge it.
LDing is a very powerfull drug in itself. It comes with powerfull hallutionations, and makes you fly. That is a wonderfull drug that can be taken naturaly, If it wasnt for that damn weed I keep smoking I could probley remmber alot more of my dreams
If you mean by drugs “mind-altering substances” then you should count next things:
Personally I do Calea and Salvia 
. Both helped me to change my LDing to the best.
I would say that LD-ing and using drugs is a very different thing - ld-ing gives you some amazing experiences, but only in very limited frame - while you are asleep, and after weeks of practise, if not months.
Drugs… can heighten your perception, alter it, or change it. They are a lot easier, and a lot more complex in why and how they are being taken. And by whom, and for what reasons. (Glares in the direction of somebody who already got enough 
for a thoughtless comment.)
So: replacing drugs with LD-ing could only work if drugs are being taken for the halluzinations, and even then the addiction problem would still be there: no matter for what reason you stop using a chemical substance, your body and mind miss it.
I could imagine that a wide-spread use of LD-ing could lower the rate of drug-abuse (I make a difference between useage and abuse of drugs), but then I think that LD-ing can be used for more than just to have fun while sleeping.
I wonder who exactly “you guys” is in that sentence (everybody who uses the words drugs? Everybody who asks questions about it?), and what you call the chemical substancies which are usually meant with the term “drug”.
The “Unless you try it, do not judge it” - yes, that sounds good and very “tolerance, not judgemental” like. (I was a bit surprised by it, though, because none of the posts with one exception sounded judgemental, while the “you guys” sounds pretty general.)
But I don’t think that it’s wrong to have an opinion about something without trying it first - otherwise, I’d not be allowed to have an opinion on rape, war, child abuse, a number of sickenesses, suicide, difficulties with math… you can probably come up with examples for yourself.
More generally: people have to somehow deal with stuff they haven’t tried and probably shouldn’t try. You cannot deal with something 
making decisions about how you are going to act) unless you have an opinion about it.
If you use chemical substancies in a way which, as far as you can tell, do no harm to you or anybody else, fine.
But none of the above posts were directed specifically to what you do, and I assume it’s an accepted fact that in a lot of cases, abuse of chemical substancies does plenty of harm.
I consider LD-ing an alternative to pshychedelics. LD’s are a million times better and safer.
Never do hard drugs like cocaine or heroin!!!
Altough they can be dangerous, LSD and Mushrooms aren’t really as bad as most people think they are.
I was seriously considering to start tripping on mushrooms once more, but after spending some time on this forum, I’ve lost all interest in psychedelic stuff.
Drugs are, as many things, tools for people whose spirituallity is low. Really, I do believe one can, for example, avoid depression based only on his/her will, but it’s not safe or stable for most people; and that’s why fluoxetine [aka Prozac] sells like water.
Alcohol and ilicit drugs may not help you avoid depression, but I believe they can help one with no self–esteem, spirituallity or confidence. And that LD does too. So, yeah, I believe SOME kinds of problem can be softened by both drugs and LDing, and therefore, one might quit doing drugs with a LD therapy.
I’m interested in the experiment. Myself, I never did any drug, but I’ve got one or two stoned friends who I might convince to give LDs a try, plus some people I know who have clinic depression and may also give us some interesting outcome.
Of course, in order to do such a thing, people must be aware that they’re being experimented and what exactly is the purpose of experiment.
Interesting view on drugs and why people use it! (I’m hearing a lot about the different explanation attempts at college right now, and I think this is definitely one of the better starting points.)
If any of your friends is willing to try LDing, I’d love to hear of the results.
Interesting topic guys, some good comments coming in (especially you Quixote!)
My point of view on drug taking with LD’s is the same as many others. It varies with each person. You have to understand the individuality of each mind, what effects its subconcious creations are like its fuel (whether it be drugs, meditation or strong will). I myself use Marijuana as i find it expands my mind out to greater boundaries than usual. I have actually experienced a more emotional attatchment to my subconcious experiences as well as my waking life ones. I was a bit dissappointed to hear someone’s comment that “stoners” are unwilling to put in effort into things, as there are many inspirational, hard working people (visual artists, musicians etc) that smoke cannabis…
Anyways, im off to bed to dream, thanks for taking the time to read my input.
Now do you truley thoughtless your statement was? I would never do them, but i’m sure people are still focused on things they really want.
I do drugs(weed) mostly to feel the rush of fast thoughts that come with being high. It speeds up my mind, and I love the overall feeling of weed. Im fixing to light up a joint now. I have cut back alot, because I really do want to become better at LDing. I want to get to the point where I only smoke enough to get relaxed for bed, but it seems to have the opposite effect, and prevents me from sleeping. Im sure there has to be a right amount to smoke just so I can relaxe, and use it to help me fall asleep.