Dabbling with demons

Lucid Lounge
1

I found this video recently, I thought it was little strange. I was thinking if I should put this in the spiritual corner or here. Obviously, I decided to put it here, so if I put it in the wrong place, sorry.

Now, I hadn’t even thought about it earlier. I don’t really believe in god either.
God is all powerful and all knowing and so on, right. He created everything. He could also destroy every thing. The devil is god’s enemy, yet god allows him to do what ever he wants.
Does god want the devil to do all the bad things? And why didn’t god know of the devils plans to turn into a snake deceive Eve with the apple thing.
If he created angels and allowed them to become demons then he must have wanted demons to be around making the lives of humans more difficult. If so, then certain people would be doomed to go to hell even before they are born.
Alright, we have free will, but creating creatures that try to use this free will to doom us seems just like bullying to me.
Maybe god’s just stupid… or maybe I am. Doesn’t matter, in the end, hell and heaven are both not good places… spending the eternity nurturing pot plants in heaven will get as painful as the fires of hell sooner or later, you’ll probably get used to the burning eventually too.

Now please call toll free to get your free copy of a silly book. If you do so now, we’ll just send it to you for free and throw in a magazine that you can’t even use to clean up the vomit of your cat. :rofl:

If demon possession makes people do eeevil things, then I will go and murder 13 orphans and draw a giant pentagram on the wall with their blood. When the police arrive I will explain that a demon possessed me and made me do it. There’s no way(that I know of) to prove or disprove that I had been possessed, so I should be let free, riight? (obviously I won’t really go murdering orphans, I’ve no grudge against them)
Every bad thing that happens, in my mind, doesn’t happen because “The Devil did it”, but because god allowed it to happen.

Now, am I just another raging lunatic or do I have a point… or maybe a little of both?

2

Aks, we shouldn’t discuss this on the forum.religion topics always turn bad on forums.I’m sure it will be locked pretty soon.

But just to let you people know, I am not a christian too, and I don’t like ‘‘god’s’’ ideas.
I mean, if you go and steal something in a store, and if you don’t prey and stuff like that, you will end up in ETERNAL hell, with no chance of coming back.That must be the most evil thing ever.NO ONE deserves it.And also, in bible…When Moses was freeing those people from egyptians, god killed children of all egyptians.Like the babies deserved that.He punished them instead.And also the story about Sodom and Gomora.

People were just having sex very much, and god decided to kill them all.One ‘‘saint’’(prophet, or whatever) said that there must also be good people in those towns, but god wouldn’t listen.

I’m sorry if this insults you, but that’s my opinion.We really shouldn’t discuss this.

3

and, not or,
The point lies within the insanity and total junk ([color=red]spoiler[/color]) you just wrote.

Do people really think that way, at all ?

the wisdom in this contrast has me thinking :
does evil only exist in the world because people on their couches are fascinated by it and want to see it ?

4

Yeah, this used to bug me a lot too. How can He be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and all-loving if He knows and witnesses all this worldly suffering but does nothing about it, and calls it either “tough love” or “your own mortal fault”?

I do vaguely remember a Biblical story, where Satan was sent to tempt someone (not Jesus… one of the other guys. Job, maybe?) and after all these nasty trials, God finally said, “Okay, I believe that he believes in and loves me,” but Satan interrupted with, “No way! I need to test him some more!” and God was like, “What’d I just say? Back off.” And Satan got all grumbly and pouty… so in that mythology, Satan isn’t “the challenger in the red corner” but a mere servant in charge of the dirtiest work. You can blame Satan for tempting Eve with the apple, but who put the tree there in the first place?

More importantly… why? The answer, I was told, is that God wanted us to have the choice. A choice in the garden, and a choice after the crucifixion, and a choice every moment that the devils and angels hop on our shoulders, trying to tilt our moral seesaw-- but it’s always a choice to bend an ear to one side or the other, because without that choice, these mean nothing: “love” “good” “virtue”.

I have yet another wave of criticisms for that system and reasoning, but, recently, I kind of figured…
God isn’t all-knowing, but is all knowledge, is not all-powerful but is all power, and He does not love… because God is love. How else can God be omnipresent?

Evil happens out of ignorance.
Suffering happens when this ignorance combines with being subject to the laws of the world-- powerlessness.
We become “possessed” by “demons” for lack of love.

To my mind, religion is just an effort to understand something of this nature, but each faith is only an angle of the whole-- even the paragraph above, is only my own angle, and that’s just as subject as any to trappings of expression. The link you posted, for example, strikes me as extremely engrossed in the metaphors-- which makes me wonder… nothing personal, Aks… but, why would you lend the credence of attention and scorn to something you know is silly?

5

this has been a major thing for me too ,

i am glad you rote this :

the Gita explains that Krishna is compassionate to even demons, and that if they come to him forgiveness he gives them blessings, allowing them to have their own planets :

i beleive the catch here, is that,
if you wish to create evil, you must experience the perspectives of all that you create evil within ,

and i believe that, the catch with Earth is simply that Earth is a tug of war , where a being is refined by experiencing the contrast of duality,
and that coming here is a choice , either out of ignorance or with a definite plan and purpose, through desires, happy joyful desires or not

this is a school where we can access transcendence, and overcome this supremely solid disparity, and harsh contrast :yinyang:

obviously we must choose to identify with good, for only what is good brings us true satisfaction

6

ok i didnt want to post but here goes.

ok… first the whole point we are here is to make a choice
free will
demons are here. too well. give us another choice.
and god loves us so much that he wont force us to do something. (because isnt that wrong?)
and here is the irony
we might be suffering but thoes are the choices someone made to make us sufer and in turn that gives us a choice on what to do about it
one of my favorite movies that supports gods reasons for letting us live in misery) is… the end of wathmen. good movie

also concerning the 1 post.
you dont get bored in heaven. you dont nurture plants. you do whatever you want to do. and dont say. “oh i guess i can just go and kill everybody” no if you were really in heaven would you want to do that?
i think that we will have little adventures in heaven. will make a topic about this so look for it

by the way. nobody can tell you or convince you about religion. why. cause nobody knows. and if they did. there is no way that THEY could make YOU know.
you have to know for yourself

whatever this is getting to long
HAPPY DREAMING

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some people do know (the sciences of meditation, properly employed, expounded by the hindus [but other paths too] in particular allows the individual to in time understand these cosmic principles) and can show you the way ,

i would like to be in their company more because i find them itneresting

somehow i’ve often felt not worthy of this,
like i asked god to help me get money to go meet some of the people i wanted, and i guess he did cause i just suddenly got a check in the mail, but it didn’t come in time so i didn’t get to do what i wanted

but i suppose i can do something similar to that next week then?

cause these are the people i should be talking to, instead of ld4all, but i use this place as some sort of confessional and pass-time to ease lonliness, sometimes make me happy :smile: and that i might help people on the side.

what i don’t understand yet , is why i would come here, when what my soul is is completely different than the way westerners live, and i am beraught in the middle of such contrast

i meditate 5 hours, and though it invokes compassion me, other people would rather have large bellies, drive motorcycles, and smoke cigarettes, and they are the people i live amongst ,
they are good ones as far as people go in that they’ll treat you with respect, and i am grateful for that, but its not the right community ,
and how do you ever go find where you belong on your own ?

my dream is not a place where the best things to do are drinking, smoking, and watching violent war movies, some people’s idea of heaven is something like that ,

i want to see earth actually BE heaven, some people don’t.

and these people would they really yearn to learn yoga from me? maybe…?

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That is pretty much what I said. :wink: But didn’t I then say

?

Let’s take Watchmen, for example, I stand squarely on the side of Ozy being really short-sighted, Machiavellian, and stupid. “I’ve made myself feel every death” my foot! That’s not good enough-- for people to not go to war because they’re weak and damaged by alien squid, or scared of Big Blue Daddy? That doesn’t teach them to not go to war, for the sake of not going to war. That was a wildly presumptuous effort, certainly not worth all the lives lost. That end wouldn’t justify the means even if there were an end.

As to the original canon, what kind of insecurity has to drive a deity to make these tests? It’s not free will-- if you think about, it’s very limited will actually. Good or evil. God or hell. Those aren’t choices, those are options. And all this roundabout, adding demons and angels-- what sick individual complicates things like that? Supposedly it was all part of the “plan” for people to suffer and choose, but who made the rules and set those goals in the first place? Supposedly, the purposes beyond these purposes, are beyond us, and it is perfect at a higher perspective. From my low-level logical egoism, though, (which, you’d have to admit, is not an invalid perspective,) the whole system of “here on earth to learn” is all very sloppily designed for a very contrived purpose. Not only as explained by Christianity, but also as explained by New Ageism, and Buddhism, and Pleiadianism… I’ve seen suffering that absolutely no divinity is worth.

This might sound strange considering what I just typed, but I disagree-- there are rare people who preach things so resonant and graceful, they strike right at the core of things we always knew but never thought. It’s like remembering where we came from, and why we left. Maybe nobody has the whole picture, but despite my invectives, I truly do respect the efforts of individuals and organizations alike to try, to preach and blaspheme, to agree and debate, to discuss and share and together just try to puzzle out the whole picture.

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Elly I am confused about your spoiler, are you responding to me ?

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:yinyang: … and I’ll look down and whisper, “No… no, that was to Wing’s allusion to the Watchmen movie.”

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hm,
Krishna is depicted as being blue, is the watchman movie exactly what my post was saying :
that we are everyone within our dream?

SPOILER - Click to view

cus you said “being scared of “Big Blue Daddy””

perhaps we should discuss the “middle east” as if it were such that thing,
how can this fierce sea of demons, and the ideas and finger pointing and division we see be remedied ? not with violence,
with love
and how can love come into permeate ? can a Christ rise in the land and bring a new teaching to repair division ?

this is not justification, and there is no righteousness within,
but the average man will point at a worst case scenario in a far away land, and say “look how evil that man is, we must make war against him so that our way can replace his”

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Oh, no, by that I meant the character of Dr. Manhattan. :shy: Who is less related to we being everyone within our dream and that Matrix stuff, but-- showing you have frightfully sharp intuition :wink: – is more related to this (least I thought so):

Word.

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Please, can someone respond to my post.I want to know what you spiritual guys think of it.And is it fair?

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I try to keep an open mind, maybe I can eventually prove my beliefs wrong and learn from it.
And I can’t say that something is bad if I haven’t seen it myself.

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yes that is correct. but when it penetrates right into your core. they KNOW for themselves. you might of lighted the spark but if they never listened or didnt want to know. didnt try. then how could YOU make them?
in the end they took it and KNEW for themselves

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Book of Job indeed, my favourite for that matter, and the story is nothing like you describe. Satan and God are pals in that book: in fact, God goes consult Satan in the first place, before Satan ever tries to tempt Job, and God (what with being the old testament God), says “sure, go right ahead and make his life as miserable as can be”. It’s a good primer on the scientific method: once Satan’s original theory (that Job is only faithful because he’s prosperous) has failed the test, Satan pretty much decides to just make him suffer to see how far it goes before he loses his faith. And, lo and behold, again God agrees with that! — only this time, he says, “you can make him suffer as much as you want, but do not take his life or that of his beloved ones” — which absolutely sucks anyhow, as far as I’m concerned. Good book, good book.

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Well you begged for a response (after you said you didn’t want to discuss this :neutral: )… so I am going to try… but if you read other peoples responses, they are in essence sharing the same view as you… maybe just worded a little more eloquently.

But basically, don’t accept what you read in the bible as it being ‘god’s’ ideas. They are a collective interpretation of ideas used to help represent one societies views of god. Its only one small piece of the puzzle… if you even believe there is a puzzle?!

So ummmmm basically… yeah… I agree with you. God doesn’t always come off as the most loving of characters in the bible. That’s why they made the sequel… called the New Testament… introducing Jesus to try and soften his image up! :tongue:

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Indeed, the Bible is reputedly written by poets and prophets — people. There never was, within it, a claim of infaillability, and indeed it at many points contradicts itself: that is an advantage of the Bible, particularly if you believe there’s some sort of categorical imperative for Free Will behind all this.

Indeed, to some, the Old Testament god might come of as, like Richard Dawkins (a rather blatant atheist) put it, arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

Haha, Jesus the PR guy; that is a funny image. Anyhow, yes, yes indeed. Jesus whipes god’s image clean of the bloodthirsty warmongering wazoo from the Old Testament rather well, but then he leaves us with the ever more bugging problem of unity in trinity. How can god be Jesus be the holy spirit, and all be one and the same, and each be distinct from each other? It has that vaguely trivial glow about it. Well, after reading a little from the Bible, and a little from the early attempts at explaining that, it doesn’t look anywhere close to vaguely trivial.

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haha word!

people like Dawkins are wasting their time crucifying things ,

albeit, the Bible is something that contains great dangerous things, things that if unleashed with wrong interpretation, well… you know ,
and is worthy of crucifixion ,

the fundamentalism is dying in our nation and the only way to put out their fire is to ignore it and let them play with it until they learn that its’ hot,
one of the best quotes of Jesus in the essene gospels is something like “why would you go to the scriptures which are dead, written by men, to know God when the Kingdom of your Earthly mother contains all of his information?”
compassion and wisdom, logic and reasoning, are the waters they will seek.

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Yeah… that part always puzzled me too (well when I was younger - I have as much given up on the ‘mystery’ ). If god sent his only son as a sacrafice to be crucified on the cross as a sign of his love - yet… Jesus is also God… so he has a self-interest. Its like an insider trading scandal to me! He knew the outcome before he sent the sacrafice. Kind of loses the ‘oh my, you are so wonderful’ to me.

I could be wrong, but I thought the idea of the trinity was adopted from other pagan religions that used the aspect such as the maiden, woman, and crone.