Lucidity and AP?

Hi there. I’m new to the site and had a question to ask.

Simply put, are Lucid Dreams and Astral Projection the same thing, essentially? I know that Lucid Dreams are waking up in the middle of a dream, where AP is staying concious while entering the Astral plane… But they’re both essentially the same, right?

See, I’ve been trying to do Astral Projection for a while now, but to no avail. Will I get the same results with Lucid Dreams as I will with Astral Projection?

I see them as completely different things.

With Astral Projection (like Remote Veiwing) you can see the real world as it is at that time (and many other things), where as Lucid Dreaming is being aware that you are dreaming and taking control of dreams.

So are you saying I should pursue them both as seperate bodies?

If you wish to pursue both, then yes.

I should add that some believe that AP and OBE are variations of Lucid Dreams, so you might want to wait for other views as well and see what they suggest.

All in all though I think that the pursuit of either can ultimately help with achiving the other.

/me swares he didn’t hit send too soon :peek:

IMO lucid dreaming is something that has been scientifically proven, so it’s real.
OBE is just a form of a LD (most people say). It’s not something else. If you were trying to get an OBE, maybe you did it the wrong way. You have to get LD’s for that, I guess.

Finally, remote viewing is something impossible and as there is no clear evidence, I can state it’s impossible (then, in the real life, I mean).

I’ve remote viewed a fewtimes thank you very much. Just because you’ve never done it doesn’t mean it’s impossible.

Also you might like to look up Project Stargate on google here’s one result for you. … litary.htm

It’s also been used once or twice to find an explosive devices within buildings by the US bombsquad.

So next time you say something is impossible, you may want to check your facts first. :wink:

Hi waking_life! Welcome to the forum! :wave:

Of course, people disagree about this cause some of them don’t think AP is possible. :wink:
Astral projecters think it’s different. They believe that you can see real things while AP’ing. They describe some methods to reach a AP from a LD. I gave some of them in this post.
[url]The Big OBE topic part II - #91 by Basilus_West]
I never tried them cause I don’t believe in AP. I think it’s LD’ing + remote viewing.

It depends on the methods you’re using. From your description (AP is staying concious while entering the Astral plane), you tried a sort of WILD method (WILD is staying conscious while entering the dream… and as Sylvan Muldoon says that the Astral Plane is the Realm of Dreams… :content: ).

WILD is the less easy method. It’s said to be easier if you practice it in conjunction with WBTB. Then if you practice WILD in the same way you practiced AP, you’re likely not to have results.

I see two possibilities. You change your WILD/AP method by searching on the forum another WILD method which fits you better and above all by practising WILD with WBTB. What results have you got with AP up to now? How close did you go to the dream state? Had you some curious visual or auditory phenomena (HH) while falling asleep?

If you didn’t, I think the best for you would be practising a DILD method (that is a method which make you conscious in the middle of a dream) like autosuggestion, MILD or reality checks. And as you can see in the post linked above, astral projecters think it’s possible to enter the astral plane from a LD. So it’s another gate. Good luck! :happy:

Eventually, I think I’ll move your post in the Beyond Dreaming subforum, cause it’s mainly paranormal oriented. :smile:

Me too! :wink:

[Darkness Myth], I don’t know anything about that. Anyway, as there is no reliable sources, it’s still impossible to me.
If you can prove me wrong, without pointing me to unknown sites (I can probably “prove” anything, starting from alien abduction and finishing with cows being able to sing rock and roll this way), so please do. :smile:

Anyway, don’t take it the wrong way: no offence. :smile:

Piculum, as you consider that [Darkness Myth] (Dark Matter) and me are not reliable sources, will you consider that sources given by non reliable sources are reliables sources? :tongue:

Here is a link to a CIA-Initiated Remote Viewing at Stanford Research Institute.
And here is its conclusion:

As for me, I’ve tried the little remote viewing tests on the GotPsi webpage. It’s made by Dean Radin’s Boundary Institute. Dean Radin is one of the leading parapsychologists up to now. I was very surprised cause I could very often imagine the main lines of the image I had to “remote view”. I even made twice (on about ten tries) a drawing which was exactly the image to be discovered. :eek: So I don’t doubt now about this possibility.

Basilus, I’m sure you would not be lieing on purpose (or at least I would not expect you to).

But, you know, senses often lie. :smile:
You might have seen something, but that did not have to be a remote viewing.
Plus, that’s quite against the laws of physics (or so it seems), so it requires much proof… :smile:

And, oh, I’ve taken a look. But this has not convinced me either, somehow.
Let alone the URL of the site does not get my trust at a first glance.

For example, look at the Wikipedia:

If there was some good and undoubtful evidence, I’m pretty sure all the supporters of the theory would not miss the chance to update it. However, it seems there is not.

That’s parapsychology. If there were undoubtful evidence, that wouldn’t be parapsychology but psychology. :content:
Anyway, I find we are a little out of topic and there is already a thread about remote viewing in this subforum. :wink:

Not gonna know for sure unless you try, right? :wink:

I don’t really agree cause it’s just two different ways of explaining the same thing. If you believe in AP, you think you really move your astral body and see real things. If you believe in LD+RV, you think you don’t move anything but you perceive remote real things. I don’t see how it could be possible to make the difference

I can experience AP almost at will. the problem is no-one else is there.
I think I am enlarging my percieved reality rather than interacting with others, as I feel certain we should meet rather than be hurtling off doing our own thing. The lucid dreams I’ve had with interaction with other people in have had have all been ‘nailed’ to a variation of the everyday world. to me that is me visiting them.
I had my trust betrayed (deeply) and I feel my ‘dream sense’ (i don’t like that term but it will do for now) has gone into lock down. I have a regular ante room that people can see when they visit but its just that, an ante room.
People say you need to deal with your demons (again not a term I like) , well I have now and it was not easy and my regular AP jaunts are sometimes good enough that I want to share but I don’t want to let just anyone in.
I guess I’m looking for defensive/guarding excersises for use in a LD

Chill man. If AP isn’t such a thrill, then go to islands of adventure and ride the rollercoasters. I didn’t know they were such fun till somebody got me to ride one.

Take a break and get back to it later.

I’m coming accross as stressed?
frustrated maybe.

I’ll try some of these lucid dream excersises and see what happens. I get LDs 2-3 times a week (on a good week)
Its hard using LDs as a context. Its like trying to talk to someone about engineering in french when you only know shopping french.
still looking for defensive/guarding skills tho. I might have found myself on the warrior path (not by design I might add), as theres often a combative edge to some of my experiences

Don’t call me primitive, I have LDs too, but warrior path? Offensive/defensive techniques? Are these necessary in Astral Projection? Why fight in AP? AP is not LD.

Okay this is based upon Traditional Chinese Medicine/Acupuncture/Maoshan/Liu be fe Magic:

Astral Projection: Astral projection occurs when one focuses and projects ones spirit energy outside ones body.
Thus a projection of the spirit.
Spirit Projection costs the body a lot of spirit energy.
The bodys energy centers are like a pyramid, each energy center depending on the baser. E.G.:
/ qi
/ jing/physical
When the surplus of psychic energy is used up, you are snapped back into your body. Thus losing all projection information because you did not have time to download it into your physical body.

Lucid Dreaming: Projection of the HUN (pronounced hoon).
The Hun is councelor to the heart.
A less detailed projection but not unimportant. Does not cost a lot of energy or any, however occurs because the body is uncomfortable, that is tired. This also happens when a traumatic event happens like being beaten, using drugs, etc.
The body become uncomfortable so the counselor leaves.

Spirit: a field made of light and energy which focuses light force energy. Tibetian buddhist practices which coincide with chinese taoist shengong techniques clearly indicate that through the red dot technique the spirit is focused into a coherent beam capable of drawing in life force energy to effect healing when used this way. Flowers and petals coincide with RADIO PROPAGATION. Antenna patterns (used in calculating antenna propagation i.e. where energy flows from an antenna EXAMPLE OF AN ANTENNA PATTERN) Chakras have these petal like anomalies, which are three dimensional in form, these can be seen after dedIcated practice.

Life force energy: chi, ki, qi, prana, orgone, (ATP/BLOOD/electric field crated by blood/ACTH/HGH/ECGC/Blood alkaloids/Etheric forms not currently measured by the scientific community)

How life force energy works: Life force energy is made of MANY DIFFERENT THINGS. There is blood qi, there is plasma qi, there is more etheric qi called atp which are an essence or hormone tigle in the language of the ancients means essence, there are other blood essences or hormones balanced by seven glands. There are five major organs that must balance themselves in life force energy. The body must be balanced in life force energy. It is more than flow through meridians and chakras, it is outside the body, surrounding it with a protective blanket. It comes from trees, animals even the heavenly bodies in the heavens, sun and moon. The electric properties of the blood help create these energetic fields as well as a high alkaline diet (from plants) helps maintain life force energy.
When too much acid in the form of tobacco, free radicals, other toxins from processed food are consumed the free flow of life force energy in the body moves turbulently, becomes obstructed or leaves the body, thus defining evil qi. Through practice these can be removed and/or dissolved. Asorbic acid (from citrus fruits) are good for the liver energy in small amounts and NOT from concentrate (your favorite blond joke). Chinese dates (da zao are readily available from your certified herbalist and are helpful in balancing your body provided you are not allergic to them or tests are done to find you are not allergic to them these are also sour tasting like citrus fruits. For life to exist the change of energy must be moved with and changed and adapted to avoid internal entropy and decay which is apparent in the universe.

Questions people ask:

Question: How do energies change?

Answer: See a book called the I Ching (or yee jing). Energy generally flows in a predetermined pattern, the more subtle energies take much longer to repeat themselves. See zang fu organ qi flow charts, and feng shui year charts. You can even use the 13 moon, and mayan energy charts in this way. If you are good at understanding patterns you can read how these energies change.

Question: I dont understand, how does this fit into my belief system?
Answer: People imagine and give power to beliefs. However acupuncture has worked for thousands of years and is well documented, based upon taoist and buddhist practices. Example: If you are christian you could say that when adam sinned he unplugged himself from God. You are getting in touch with your connection to God. Now I don’t believe any of that but if it helps you thats great.
Once again if you give power to the belief that there is death or you are some horrible sinner than you make it true. Yes we are imperfect, but the point is that when you give your power away you will only become ill.
A cutting away and stripping off of these ill belifs will make you free and not hold you within the bounds and prison cell of predetermined and restrictive ideas which the illimunati, thule occult socity, and constantine have given to you.

Question: What do Illuminati, thule occult society, and Constantine have in common?
Answer: Thule occult society in conjuction with the catholic church killed people and destroyed several ancient bible texts in aramaic (one of the very ancient languages the bible was written in). Hitler was a member of it, born an indigo child, abused by his mother sexually and brainwashed into its society. Constanine rewrote it to unite the pagan factions. Illuminati rewrote it because the belived in controlled conflict. They did not want ccertain forces at work so they created their own (responsible for workings of communism) and the current political systems in power today. Thule occult society delt the most devestating blow to the bible and began the occult war. Hitler wanted artifacts from all over.
Thus hitler tried to destroy other beliefs because he knew that people were giving power to them.

Question: Does this mean that a particular spiritual practice I am doing is incorrect or wrong?

Answer: No, I merely mean that if you believe in something truely without doubt it works. If the five organs are not in balance what you believe will not work, and doubt and depression and conflict will riddle your life. The Five organs must be in balance:
Too much seeing depletes the liver/gallbladder.
Too much tasting depletes the stomach and spleen.
Too much hearing depletes the kidneys.
Too much smelling depletes the lungs.
Too much touch depletes the heart.

The energys feed each other:
earth feeds metal feeds water feeds wood feeds fire feeds earth.

earth is stomach/spleen.
metal is lungs/largeintestine.
water is kidneys.
wood is liver gallbladder.
fire is the fourfold heart/triple burner (called sanjiao in acupuncture)/smallintestine/bladder.

Sprirt practices nourish these individual organs as the flow of chi is strengthened and nourtured and movement and exercise also strengthen and increase this flow.

Now for the conclusion of this question:
Spleen/Stomach transform food qi and are responsible for the transportation of energy due to speech and imagination and gives power to the lungs to transform energy -Earth to metal.
Lungs transport qi to and from the skin and in and out the body also finally transforms the food qi into useable energy and power into WILL. Gives power and will to the kidneys. Metal to water.
Kidneys transform the lighter energies and give power to the mind psychic center (brain). Causes the turbid energies to decend to the bladder. Forms the will and foundation energy of the body from essence (tigle). Gives will to the growth and regenrative capabilities of the body (liver) Thus Water to wood.
Liver is the councelor of the body, is responsible for some immune functions and a host of other regnerative capabilities. Governs the sinews and tendons. Gives birth to the base emotion anger through which all projects and things are generally accomplished, the Angry state is a gentle anger. So angry that you turn red or say and do the wrong thing is harmful to the body. This is not the pure expression of anger. Liver gives regeneration and strength to the stomach and spleen which need these for the deep stregth governed by Earth and stomach and spleen which is namely the muscles and the imagination. Done.

Mitochodria - manufacture the chemical responsible for the transfer of qi called ATP (adenosinetriphosphate) and in large amounts trigger ACTH in the brain responsible for body deep healing and other supernatural feats.

Also, when you begin spiritual training yama, who is the karmic devil, or the devil will make evil things happen.
This is beacuse all the karma from all your life times are catching up with you because you have chosen an enlightened path. He does not want you to continue.
He is not something real but quite like but not really the concept of energetic blockages and turbulent energy.
He is the duality and opposition force.

You practisce by not telling people, and doing things in the wu wei or no mind state. Thus you eliminate karma altogether and have become an immortal buddha. This of course take a lot of practice. It is doing a martial art form without thinking like taichi. Doing things with imagination feeling and form, but with intent the same instant as you are accomplishing your feat. Thus Taoism is the shortcut, the easy path to avoid karmic debt.

I’m not calling you primitive (trully sorry if you felt I meant that :handshake: ), its my language that is not up to the task.
I have been told that if an experience gets too much you can use white light (imagine your self surrounded by it)as a defence.
As for fighting, its not fighting as such more being approached by others with negative intent, again i stress the fact that it is not by choice this happens and the warrior path is just I term I got from this forum.

Having capabilities in LDs with no training is hard work.
I’ve got to spend some time reading these boards to see what people suggest for more control in LDs.

I do my ‘best’ AP before sleep and that leads on to dreaming so I blend them both into one part of life.

I have never understood people who say that AP is impossible.

Yes, you are right-- you cannot prove that it is possible. Yet, at the same time, can you prove that it isn’t possible? No. Here’s a good analogy:

Before the Industrial Revolution, what was considered “modern science” would have concluded that a 6-7 hour journey from New York to Spain is impossible. However, we now know that it is quite possible.

Basically, the science of today cannot “prove” that Astral Projection is possible. But the science of future years could. You won’t know until it happens. Taking a more “agnostic” point of view on the matter is more logical than being sure in your views.