This is a continued discussion. Part I can be found here
Alright, question here…
Freecube, you said that you knew R3TRO from church. Would you say there’s a sense of competitiveness or encouragement that helped you get LDs or did that have nothing to do with it? (Either one of you can answer this.)
Sorry if it has been asked before, I didn’t want to read through 9 pages just so I could ask my question.
Q: How do you count your LD’s. If you have for example 16 lucids one night, and you also say that you are lucid throughout the whole night, then you would have to wake up 16 times in my opinion to count 16 lucids otherwise the whole night would be ‘just’ one long lucid dream. Or perhaps you count a LD as ‘new’ when you change it’s contents enough? Another possibility is that you loose consciousness throughout deep sleep (from your description of deep sleep, you do) and become aware again during the following dreams (but then you would have ‘only’ 4 to 6 LD’s a night since that’s the amount of dream cycles we normally have).
I can quite easily remember 6 or 7+ lucid and non lucid dreams in one night without ever waking up after them. As you practice, your ability to recall dreams in the morning gets much better. However, I do agree with you that remembering 16 dreams in one night would be hard.
The way I count my lucid dreams is if the content changes. For example I might have 2 lucid dreams in one rem period. If during this rem period a dream ends and I bring myself back into the same dream I count it as one dream. However, if the content of the dream changes then I will count 2 dreams even though they both occurred in the same rem period.
Keep in mind that this is not a rule or anything. It is just how I count my dreams. Count yours however you want.
First to FFlare, yes we do have a lot of competition, I think this helped alot with my ability, just because i wamted so bad to keep up with him.
Xetrov: I count NREM LDs as lucid dreams too, because i believe that they are. I also count deep sleep LDs, but i dont really like being lucid during those dreams, because they are weird and i dont really see the point in it, but i could if i wanted to. I have on average 8-10 Dreams a night, add the NREM dreams with those and get about 15, get woken up 7 times, gets up to about 21. 
Evil Waker upper…
If Lucid dreaming were on the same level as ghosts and telepathy, I dont think LDs would be proven today. They have proven it by checking for eye movement. But, this would not be enough proof for telepathy or ghosts. This is because the farther out the idea is, the more proof you need. If you have proof for ghosts it better be a good one, a movie or picture isn’t enough, it can be faked. The word of a scientist or even two isn’t enough, they can be biased or wrongly interpreting the data.
Basically, it would be hard to prove it.
Well then you have an awkward way of counting lucids. The content of my lucids can change according to what I demand to hapen, so for example i can say “lets turn around and i’ll be on the south pole” (where i was in my house before), in your definition I then would have had 2 lucids. Also, I too can remember with ease up to sometimes 10 or more dreams a night (depending on me waking up 1 or 2 times and taking notes, that helps tremendously). Most of my dreams are ND’s and those are easy to count, I do it the same as you count your LD’s (new content). This is because during ND’s you are not conscious of the fact that you are dreaming and so transitions between different dreams are very hard or impossible to notice. This said I count my LD’s as the amount of times I innitiated a lucid dream. If you are lucid the whole night, then that would be only 1 time. If you have 3 lucids and you have several ND’s between them, then that would be 3 LD’s. And yes, I have always claimed that indeed the amount of LD’s says absolutely nothing about quality and length.
Yes ofcourse, noone claimed that those aren’t LD’s, just be aware that nREM LD’s mostly happen at the start of sleeping, for example as the result of WILD. REM hasn’t begun yet in this stage because sleep isnt deep enough yet.
In deep sleep (pure delta brainwave activity) as I have written here before, there are no dreams at all so how come you speak of LD’s here? Perhaps you mean that you maintain awareness in this total blackness and thus count it as a LD, which is ofcourse a way of keeping score.
I see, then how do you discern between dreams? Just ast milod perhaps, if the content changes? You say you are lucid all night, so you can’t use the same method I use (counting every time you innitiate a LD), because then you would ‘only’ have 1 LD (albeit 1 very long one, all night). Perhaps you count your LD’s as somewhat equal to the amount of REM periods you have, since if you are lucid all night, you could say that in each REM period a new LD innitiates. But then you would have like 5 or 6 LD’s a night max (plus a few nREM’s, but those are not many because they continue into REM so this way they aren’t seperate LD’s). If you add to that 7 Wild’s, the total comes actually quite close to 15 LD’s a night indeed.
By the way, I would also like to know how you can know the difference between a nREM (not deep sleep!) LD and a ‘normal’ LD, and why you count those as seperate since mostly they just silently continue into REM (although you can feel differences).
You completely misunderstood what I said. What I said was if a dream ends but I then fall back into the dream and the content of the dream was the same or a continuation of the previous dream then I would count that as one not 2 dreams. Obviously if I changed the content in the middle of the dream (or if the content changed on its own) then of course that would be one dream. My method of counting is designed to be more conservative, not more liberal as you suggested.
Ok im sorry, but it looked like that since you only stated that as an example! but never mind
Sorry I just re-read my post from yesterday and I guess it was not as clear as it should have been. I was very tired. Things are backed up from work because of the holidays so, I an a bit overworked and run down from trying to catch up. Hopefully I was a bit more clear today.
nREM dreams are cool because you can feel your dream body and your real life body, you can feel yourself turn over under your covers, when in the dream you are standing up not moving at all. Quite a weird feeling.
Yeah thats true. Now how about my question about counting your LD’s? Could you answer to that perhaps?
In that example, where you are conscious throughout the hole night, you would still have definite breaks in dreaming. You may be conscious but, you are not dreaming all the time. For instance, in delta sleep you can not get any visuals at all and cannot dream. Even in lighter stages of sleep there are definite brakes in-between dreams so, it would be easy to count each separate dream since you can clearly see when each dream starts and ends. No, I would not count it as one long lucid dream.
Yeah, as milod said you do have breaks of dreams. when everything swirls away and you’re left with blackness and blankness for awhile, I count that as ending the dream, and when something new all of a sudden is there, thats the next one. 
That’s why I wrote:
So I wanted to ask them in the 1st place if they were lucid during deep sleep. After their replies I can say, definately not. It’s no shame though, since it takes a great deal of effort and some talent before you can reach this (ask Jeff). So that’s why I proposed the following:
But ofcourse you are right in stating:
This is a matter of personal taste. If I maintain lucidity throughout several dreams in 1 REM (happens from time to time), where I went from one dream to the other trhough some blackness and swirls (mind you, that’s not deep sleep), I’d count it as 1 LD, but thats just my way of doing it ofcourse.
Well ok now I got the answer to my question …
Can one of you experts please post on the Extending LD time is Lucid Laboratory because you guys have mentoned extending time succesfully and most of those guys do not believe it’s possible that it just feels like a longer period of time.
Thank you
Same here. If i would count the same way as those people, i would be having hundreds ld’s aswell.
Bunny: Actually, um, you wouldn’t, as I believe you don’t actually have that many REM periods…
No, you understand wrong. He is NOT referring to delta deep sleep. He is referring to the light nREM stage of sleep (which happens just before or perhaps after REM, in any case it happens also when you fall asleep). In this stage the SP might not yet be 100% and you can easily feel your physical body if you remain conscious.
whoa the weirdest thing happened to me this morning, I told myself that i would open my eyes during REM, and I did, and my eyes were moving so fast that everything was weird and blurry. It was cool, only thing was I didnt get to spend more time in my last LD, but i did get to have a fun experience with the old hag.
I wake up, and i feel like 500 pounds on me, I go whoa cool old Hag, I open my eyes and see the nastiest ugly fattest woman ive ever seen, and im like haha your ugly and fat (i made sure that i would be able to talk when i woke up) and she goes, dangit i hate the people that dont get scared of me, and she imediatly becomes a dove and flys out my window into someone elses house, and im guessing into their bedroom, to haunt them.
wow, tahts quite the dream. but you didnt have the chance to talk to her, to ask why she was doing this. i mean, tahts what i would have done.