The BIG WILD Topic - Part XIII

Very interesting comment, Xetrov! I was on the verge to ask this question about WILD’ing position! :smile:

For me its to hard to breathe and be relaxed on my stomach

last night i tried wild, after a while i felt like i was being pulled into a big room, well thats sort of what it felt like i cant really describe it, but it felt wierd, then i got excited and woke up. this is always what happens when i try to wild, i cant stay calm. and also when i opened my eyes my hands kind of tingled, am i getting close?

Hi everyone,

Recently I’ve been trying to induce LD via WILD and I think I’m getting close. I am curious as to how “far” I am until I cross that line between falling asleep and being asleep, i.e. when the LD begins.

I’m able to bring myself into a state where sleep paralysis is, I believe, beginning to manifest itself: the limbs, along with my head, start to mildly tingle and soon enough start feeling weightless. This is where it usually ends…

At this point, HI is relatively weak - I find myself having to concentrate on creating imagery, instead of simply seeing it and following it. Does HI become more powerful after sleep paralysis kicks in?

Additionally, as I feel my body beginning to go limp, my heart rate substantially increases, as does twitching of the eyes. I am glad to scan the forums seeing that these exact two things happen to MANY people!

I feel it is the combination of lack of HI and the adrenaline boost (is that what it is?) that is causing me to open my eyes and end it all. Tonight I will try a different subtechnique in WILD to hopefully get beyond this point.

I usually arrive at this point by counting to myself to 100, with “I’m dreaming” in between each number. I begin to lose concentration at around 30 (if I’m sleepy) and start feeling the tingling limbs. This technique works well for me. I have read on another thread somewhere that one shouldn’t concentrate on the same thing for more than 2 or 3 seconds, which is something I did not know! I will certainly take this into account tonight (in about 3 hours heheh). Hopefully this will allow me to relax a bit more and improve my HI, since my brain should have more content to dabble through as I conciously think of random things.

When I get to the point where sleep paralysis begins, my brain feels extremely active, almost as if I am completely awake, but with the funny tingling sensations. Should I feel more “out of it” at this point? Or is this normal?

Any additional tips for me to get past this point?

THANK YOU for your time!

P.S. yes I have had lucid dreams in the past, though I did not induce them. Inducing LD’s is my new objective :wink:

I’m very new to trying to induce LD’s. I’ve had literally no success, but I’m going to try the method tonight (and tomorrow morning, should I wake up) where you count to 100 saying I’m dreaming in between each. I’ll report on how successful.

I really suck at this WILD thing. I can induuce SP whenever I want though (So I know exactly how WILD is suposed to feel), but it means me staying awake at least 4 hours later than the night before so I can’t do it every night.

I’m having serious problems doing a regular WILD without SP. I can see the HI (although I have more sound hallucinations), but it repels me like a magnet back to the real world. Every night I’ve tried this, I’ve stayed up all night.

I guess it just takes practice.

lucidmageta, if you can not stay calm then don’t WILD. Try to relax as much as possible. The sensations you describe are common but do not nececarrily mean you got close.

Jacques, welcome to the forum! The stage where your limbs start becomming weightless is not SP yet. It is part of the process where the mind withdraws it’s external senses. Lack of HI does not need to cause abortion of the WILD, you can focus on other things aswell (like counting, or breathing), untill you are in the dream. Also I dont know about the “dont focus for more then 3 seconds” idea, as far as I’m concerned you do have to stay focussed on 1 thing untill your body is asleep. If you want an additional technique to continue your WILD, take a look at this. Good luck!

Aquatico, have you tried to combine WILD with WBTB, or just doing it when you wake shortly during the night? And good guess, it does take some practice… :smile:

welcome to the forum!

Thanks! :smile:

The stage where your limbs start becomming weightless is
not SP yet. It is part of the process where the mind
withdraws it’s external senses.

I see! Good to know. Though this does mean that SP will come soon, correct? At which NREM stage does SP manifest itself?

Lack of HI does not need to cause abortion of the WILD,
you can focus on other things aswell (like counting, or
breathing), untill you are in the dream.

That’s what I thought; though I’ve had troubles in the past with concentrating on things too intently, preventing me from falling asleep. Perhaps I just need to better learn how to relax…

Also I dont know about the “dont focus for more then 3
seconds” idea, as far as I’m concerned you do have to stay
focussed on 1 thing untill your body is asleep.

Yeah. Unfortunately I can’t find the site where I read that. I tried thinking of multiple things last night while falling asleep, but all that did was launch me into a ND. :neutral:

If you want an additional technique to continue your WILD,
take a look at this.
Good luck!

Sounds interesting! Although it does involve WBTB technique, which I am trying to avoid. If there’s one method that I’m willing to work with and master, it will be WILD (of course, if I simply cannot do it, I will try other methods, but thus far I haven’t enough experience with WILD to give up just yet).

Thanks for the reply. :content:

Another question: If using WILD to LD, how important is it to do RC in WL?

I would think it starts only at nREM phase 3 or 4, (onset) deep sleep. After that also in REM ofcourse.

Also you really should try WILD + WBTB or, whenever you wake up during the night (you dont need to stay up long, do it the moment you wake up).

RC’s for WILD aren’t too important, because you stay conscious throughout the whole process, so you dont need a RC to become lucid.

Xetrov-i was reading that post you made in the link in the previous post about waking up half way in the middle of the night then picture yourself spinning you will enter a LD…could this technique also work going to bed on a normal night if you waited for yourself to start to fall asleep then picture yourself spinning?

i doubt ill be able to do it n e way’s but it would be worth a try

i cant do WBTB because i live with my mom, dad, and sister and if i woke n e of them with an alarm at 4 in the morning they would definately kill me

Thanks Xetrov,

If I employ a WBTB/WILD combo, can this possibly help me in my WILD-only quest for lucidity? It’s definitely true you return to the REM state shortly after wake, as this morning I fell back asleep and started dreaming almost instantly (ND, unfortunately :tongue: ). I’m tempted to try WBTB tonight, as I’ve heard it is a reliable technique, but I’m afraid I might not be able to fall asleep again after the wake.

Anyway, I found that thing I mentioned earlier…

Found it at the Lucid Dreaming Wikibook! Should someone edit this maybe? :confused:

I was looking around and found that the only real difference between MILD and WILD is that with the latter, the dreamer is fully concious throughout the HI/Dream transition. MILD, on the other hand, you concentrate and keep your mind awake as your body falls asleep, but “let go” before or during intense HI, only to “find” yourself in a dream and (hopefully) become aware and lucid.

I think if I try MILD, it will help me with WILD. Anyone here use MILD to strengthen their WILD technique?

WBTB helps a lot. The forementionned techniques could of course work when going to bed, but with WBTB you’re almost in the good state to make them work immediatly.

You’re right, it’s not very clear. They mean you don’t have be caught by discursive thoughts. When you focus on something, if you lose your awareness and begin to think, you have to come back immediatly to the thing you focused on.

MILD is based upon autosuggestion. The fact you fall asleep or not while doing this is not important. Generally, you don’t cross the HI stage when MILD’ing. You just have to be in a relaxed state, so that autosuggestion works better.

I don’t think MILD could help strengthening your WILD technique. In order to make WILD work, you have to learn how to go through the HI stage, how to balance your awareness so that you don’t fall asleep inconsciously or in the other hand you are conscious too much and can’t sleep. In my opinion, MILD is useless to learn this.

Yes it could, but it will be like infinite times harder to do. Which counts for any WILD tech anyway. Thats why you have to, somehow, be able to combine it with WBTB. You dont need an alarm for that by the way, drink a glass of water and tell yourself “when I need to pee I’ll wake up”, this works great (and no, it wont wet your bed, not likely anyway :razz:). If you get used to waking up at night (anyone can learn this!), you can use these short semi-waking periods greatly to your advantage for this is the time WILD is easiest!

Jacques, same advice counts for you :smile:.

No, this is correct. However you should not confuse different WILD methods. The method described here is a way to enter a LD through actively stimulating your HI’s. This is not done through focus, more by letting your thoughts wander, thus creating momentum for the HI. Personally I think this is dangerous since it means you can lose awareness fast and fall asleep non lucid. Besides this technique there are many which require a focus. This means keeping your awareness on a certain feat, like breathing, or counting. So ehm, Basilus, what you wrote on this is not entirely on topic… :razz:.

Thanks guys for taking the time to help me out, I really appreciate it :twirl:

I think learning how to reliably induce LD’s is one of the most rewarding things someone can do for themselves.

Anyway, last night I attempted MILD (pre-first-dream), but this resulted in a ND. I awoke after this first ND, and decided that since I was already at this point, I had three options: MILD (post-first-dream), WILD, or WBTB (or combos, of course). I ran through the dream I just had and realized I missed a completely obvious dreamsign: the lightswitch in my bathroom failed to work! I even remember playing with the switch, trying to make it functional again! Gah SO CLOSE! :tongue: I didn’t see it as a dreamsign because my usage of the lightswitch was not a RC. I did it because it was dark; I guess I believed the bulbs were blown out. Haha

I then tried WILD because I remembered how successful people have been with the WBTB/WILD combo, which was sort of where I was at this point anyway. Unfortunately I could not fall asleep and eventually “gave up” since it was 3am and I wanted to get some sleep!

This morning I woke up and tried WILD again, since I remembered that the REM stage can easily be brought back when you wake up from a night of sleep. I’ve never been this close before; I was fully concious during SP and this was actually pretty frightening! A COMPLETELY new and totally weird body sensation that really caught me off guard! Of course, this woke me up, and I ended up getting out of bed after a few more failed attempts.

Conclusion: Now that I know what SP actually feels like, I know what to expect and be able to assure myself that everything is fine and these feelings are supposed to happen. Cool. :cool:

Hi guys,

Everyone having success WILD’ing lately? :-p

Anyway… I was wondering; during WILD, the point is to stay concious during nREM1, 2, 3, 4, 3, and 2 - after which comes REM, when the LD should begin?

Are those successful with WILD able to discern in which stage of sleep he or she is currently in or passing through?

I was curious because I feel somewhat as if I’m getting “stuck” - after SP I fall into a state of complete physical relaxation (not sure if I am actually paralyzed or if I’ve woken myself out of it, but I can certainly feel its onset) but my brain is quite active. I effortlessly [and conciously] progress through dream-like scenarios in my head, letting them flow in whichever direction they please but still remaining concious. I’ve been stuck at this point of “partial” dreaming for a while now and it’s really odd. Thinking this was a stage of sleep I’ve allowed it to go on for several hours, but end up “releasing” and simply going into a ND.

The funny thing is, I can prolong this state for several hours on end per night (not that fun, heh) and not wake up tired or groggy! It’s as if my body is sleeping, my brain is dreaming, but my conciousness extends such as that the dreams do not fully engulf my senses.

Your thoughts?

Errr… The real cycle is 1, 2, 3, 4, REM / 1, 2, 3, 4, REM, etc.

It’s possible that during WILD, if you don’t WBTB, you enter consciously in nREM dreams, or perhaps even in a modified state of consciousness. OBE’ists have been mesured in stage 1 and 2. It’s perhaps the reason why it’s easier to WILD after a WBTB, cause it’s perhaps easier to WILD in a REM sleep stage.

Uhh… I know you’re way more experienced than I am with dreaming and sleep and such, but I’m fairly positive the stages reverse after 4 before going into REM.

In fact, this seems to be verified by the following sources: … t_dreaming

Anyway, my LD motivation at the moment is pretty weak so chances of me having one are slim. I think I need to read some more positive LD reports before trying again. :tongue:

That modified state of conciousness thing sounds interesting. Perhaps my attempts to WILD are resulting in OBE’s, albeit weak ones :shy:

Oops! :shy: Thank you Jacques for pointing this out. I had not understood how sleep cycles worked!

/me runs away and hides… :peek:

Basilus West you are awesome… I’ve been to too many forums where the elders (let alone moderators!) will never accept a correction put forth by a n00b like myself. :colgate:

(and I didn’t realize just how many emoticons there are too choose from here at LD4ALL! :lol: )

Anyway… I’ve found that focusing on the third eye while trying to WILD is really helping me “break into” the sleep cycle, i.e. being awake and concious to being asleep and concious. It keeps me focused and aware while at the same time not fully occupying my thoughts such as to chase sleep away, which is what usually happens when I try counting. Counting used to work; maybe now I’m just doing it for too long.

I’ve found that WILD is actually a pretty intensive process. I went into this thinking all I had to do was stay aware while I fell asleep, but have now realized that the physical and mental body undergo a lot of change when falling asleep - changes that all require understanding of what’s going on, and what to do to mentally as your body continues to progress into a deeper state of sleep. Nothing but practice will help a person gain this understanding and thereby acquire success.

Sleep well,

Thank you. :smile: But I’ve to say that before I admitted you were right, I verified at the Sleep laboratory of the University of Lyons website, though… :wink:

I agree with you. I noticed on this forum that it was rather difficult to explain how WILD worked, and especially what to do when you reach the HH stage, because there are many ways of falling asleep. Though it seems they could be sorted in 3 classes (visual, auditive or kinesthetic hallucinations), everybody has his own way of falling asleep indeed. And you cannot explain why it’s easy for some people, and difficult to others… :confused: