Summary of the first episode: after discovering Anna and Susan K IP numbers were quite the same, Anna’s story was suspected to be a hoax. The thread went out-of-topic and was locked. Episode I
Now a new adventure begins…
“Imagine your are dreaming and find a flower, you can smell it, touch it, look at it. Imagine that you cut it from its garden and your holding it with your hands. Now, what a surprise would it be, if you wake up and realize that the flower is still in your hands”.
Materialization?! There is an experiment one can try about this. You go to sleep with a small bag tied up to your pijamas, you become lucid in a dream and look for your bag on your side. Then you fin a small object, could be a small rock (or gold, he) and put it in your bag. Then you firmly say loaudly, “when I woke up, this stone will come with me back to the real world”. Then, just open the bag, and check.
Saints and gurus are said to be able to materialize things (ex Sai baba)…imagine if people could start bringing whatever they want from their dreams, Wall street would be in real problems…hi.
In Castanedas books there are reference about old sourcers with “objets of power” brought back from dreams. Even more fantastic things are told in those books, like, being able to take your phisical body into the dream world…mmm
I believe it is possible, but I have notever materialized antthing. I have brought back poems and answers to questions, but never anything solid.
I used to try to do that all the time when I was very young, like 4 years old. I would be in a dream playing with a really cool toy. Knowing that I was going to awake soon, I would grab hold of the object real tight wanting to bring it back so I could still play with it when I woke up.
Well, when I woke up, I would be Soooo disapointed that it was not still in my arms. I would get over it by just playing with other toys right away.
Now that I am older and can focus so much better, I will try this out more seriously.
Thankyou, Onironauta, for bringing this up. I will definently keep this idea clearer in my mind while lucid.
-Six
I ve vever done it but I will try. I did once waked up with the tactile impression of having something in my hands ( a baby dragon). But I asumed this kind of experience was only my brain telling my body to experience such a think. The dream was so vivid that my body reacted to it as if it was real. Probably a tactile hallucination. If the object vanishes then its just an hallucination, but ¿what if its stays and you can keep it? I ve read the tread with Annas “case”. I dont know if its true or not, but I do believe its pretty posibbler to materialize objetcs. The key I think is in the relation between the phiscal universe and our minds. On this I sujetst reading Jacobo Grinberg, a mexican psiconeurologyst and investigator, he talks about how we create our experience of the world.
If an objct can materialize, then our causalistic expalnation of the origin of things would crash. This is an Idea about this:
Our universe was not created millions of years ago, but right know. Its being created and destroyed just Now. Its our minds wich place espontaneus, simultaneous and atemporal information in an orederly secuency of temporal events. The true is, we are in contact right now with everything, everywhere and everwhen, but we are giving an order to this whole information, an order wich only really exists in our minds. The universe is like a super hologram, every point contains the whole model of the universe, and we are just decoding one part of it, placing it in temporal and spatial order.
Materialization would be the ability to colapse a certain group of information from that Whole, right in front of us. This means that, our natural ability to create the world we see unconsciously by collapsing we all the same patterns of information (the world as we see it), could be used consciuosly if being able to enter the matrix of the universe and decode some part of it ( a solid gold rock).
Now, many esoteric and mystic tradition talk about this big ilusion for the mind, and believe mind is the origin of mater. New phisics are starting to give same answers. Our newtonian-mechanistic view of the world as solid, temporal and spatial is being questioned…
Wouldn’t you need to be able to, like, create atoms? Nothing is every completely destoryed (you can take it apart, but you can’t fully remove it from the Universe) so I assume nothing can be ‘added’ in from our dream worlds.
So, if this were to be done, we’d need to be able to affect the atoms around us and transform them and stick them together into the object you wanted to bring back.
What happens in your dreams is just in your mind, you couldn’t bring a physical object back from a dream, that would just be like magically making things appear…
I don’t think it’s possible. Even if it were, it would have to replace something since matter is finite. So, for something to come to the dream world, something from the real world would have to be replaced. There is a balance in the world (even coming from a Christian perspective) that must be maintained and changing that could have consequences.
I’m still pretty new at this so I am by no means an expert. However, I tend to agree with ViperX and r3m0t. It is of my opinion that some of you are very excited about the concept of Lucidity, and simply wish that materialization is possible. Like “Hey, we can control our dreams, so why can’t we bring things back too?” I like the idea but do not think it is possible.
I agree, dreams happen only in our minds, but not only dreams, ¡everything!. The distinction between our inner world and external world is arbitrary. Things do apear magically, espontaneously, they dont have a causalistic history. Our minds interpret events as coming from the past to the future, but everything is happening just right Now. Time and space, they are only mental constructions, and so the “solid” objets between them. This debate, idealism vs materialism has been long enough. What new phisics are telling us is that the universe is any more like a big machine, but more like a Great Tought. The escenary of life is a mental structure. Reality is produce inside us.
For example, if our minds believe we are freezing, our brian would be telling our body that message, and it would react as if freezing, even if the weather is hot. Hipnosis have proof of mind power to create experience. So, the consensus reality we experience ¿couldnt it be a huge collective hipnotic state? ¿some kind of a curse, or magic spell?
I think it may be possibale because of hypnopopic imagrey, which is images from dreams that you bring back to waking life when you first wake up from a dream.
Also in dreams the objects are inestable and are subject to the changes of your thoughts, for example, i see an orange and can change it’s color or turn it into an apple. But that doesn’t happen in reality, objects stay the same in reality. So if you could really bring a dream object to RL it would be a strange result, inestable materia maybe?
Perhaps it’s possible to bring things from dreams after all but they don’t materialize correctly and fade out before even forming?
Because e=mc2, if you could somehow control a vast amount of energy and convert it to matter with your mind, you could make something materialize. By vast I mean about 1/1000 of the world’s yearly energy production to make a kilogram of matter, although that’s only about a billionth of the sun’s output each second. Of course there is nothing in my experience or education (in physics) to indicate that your mind could do such things, but there probably isn’t much you couldn’t do if you controlled that much energy that presicly with your mind. That said, I’m going to try it anyway in my next lucid dream. I think I’ll try to bring my dream girl back with me.
I don’t know if it’s truly impossible to bring back things from a dream, but the idea faces the same kind of paradoxes as the idea of travelling back into time. Suppose you’re an experienced LDer, and in one particular very realistic LD you travel to the Smithsonian where they’re keeping say a famous 17th century sword. Suppose now you’re having the ability to bring this back sword from your dream to waking life. But if that should happen, what will happen with that sword? Two EXACT copies of the same material suddenly in one and the same spacetime dimension seems to violate various energy laws. Or suppose you’re so advanced you can also bring people back from dreams (if it’s possible for things, why not for people?). Theoretically you can bring back famous persons from your dreams… Seems extremely unlikely this is possible…
eh…er…i dont really know what to think of this. While I don’t believe you can bring back solid objects like a book or stone or gold…I do believe you can get things like cuts and stuff. I once had a dream where I was in a room full of snakes, and one bit me on the finger. When I woke up, I had a cut on that same finger, and it had dry blood on it.
Do we know our limits? Can we really say something is like this and not like that? Our believes are our limits. All our knowledge is based on our asumptions on reallity. Our knowledge of reality is the barrier between us and the real world.
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. Jeez, that wouldn’t go so well…