Lucid Levels and Axes

So, I’ve gleaned that we seem to differentiate between “levels” of lucidity…

Stephen LaBerge quotes Oliver Fox’s degrees of pre-lucidity…

Oliver Fox regarded [the critical faculty] as typically “asleep” in ordinary dreams. He also believed this faculty to be fundamental to the attainment of lucidity. In order to become lucid in a dream, wrote Fox:

From the Crossroads website, a broad and basic low-versus-high from that I think most onieronauts ascribe to:

[spoiler]Lucid dreaming ranging from low to high - Its hard to pin down a ‘normal’ lucid dream as they can have many facets and come in bands of awareness from low to high or any shade in the middle. LOW level lucidity could be very much like a normal dream, you might have gained awareness by realising your dreaming but you’re not really focused on much more than following or exploring the dream world around you. Imagine coming off a plane after 10hrs, your jet lagged and you haven’t had enough sleep. Your just taking things in but not really processing them properly, you might enjoy running around or flying but you won’t really question anything too deeply. You just want to have fun or are happy just being lucid, I tend to rush upto dream people and yabba on about “look I’m lucid and your not real etc etc” instead of remembering to do some of the cool things I wanted to do when lucid like visit the Crossroads dream space.

In HIGH level lucids your brain is far more switched on and connected, you have full memory recall and you feel bright and in control. You are fascinated with what you see and can notice far more detail in large complex scenes than you might have done in a low lucid dream. Everything feels far more real than it did in the slightly mentally dulled low level state in fact it may feel more real than normal consciousness. This more real sensation is can only be paralleled in waking life by peak moments such as adrenaline fueled experiences, a car crash, falling or I imagine jumping from a plane. Its that sharpening of the senses, that feeling of being very alive, you might also get this from fearful situations in life, or extreme happiness.[/spoiler]

And a very detailed way which I think sorts these out very nice and neatly, from a YouTuber:

Meanwhile, I’ve had a couple of dreams where I dream of going to sleep, and in that dream have a lucid dream. However, in this lucid dream I only deal with issues presented in the normal dream.
For example, I have a nightmare. I have a false awakening, and then go back into that nightmare, lucid enough to change the nightmare. Or, I have a dream where I kill someone and invite the ghost to visit me in a lucid dream that night within that normal dream. Is it still lucid, if I’m not connected with true waking awareness?

Is this a false lucid? Meta-lucid? Layer 1.5?

Does anyone else have any Level systems (or, opinion on having a level system: like, “It’s too complicated, can’t we just dream and have fun?” :tongue: ) or dreams that somehow seem to be neither here nor there, but lucid?

Edit to add: from this thread

Level 1: (Not lucid) a normal dream
Level 2: (Partially Lucid) I realize that I am dreaming but it’s nothing special, but things are still very dull, and I don’t focous on what I want to do. I also am not doing anything to take control of the dream. These LDs usually don’t last long either.
Level 4: (Half way there) I know that I am dreaming. I have a plan, but am struggling to do what I want. I can see clearly.
Level 3: (Completely lucid) I am completely aware that I am dreaming. I have full control over everything. It is just as vivid as if I am looking through my waking eyes. I also have all 5 senses.

I guess it’s kind of complicated.

cool, and oh, you mixed 3 and 4…

I believe that there actually is no lucidity level in a dream (besides non-lucid and lucid of-course). If I look back at my LD experiences, all of them have the exact same level of lucidity, never higher, never lower. I believe that these scales simply put limits on us that prevent us from reaching full lucidity.

I believe you had a FLD.
Try not to mix up your numbers next time Wild Night. :wink:

I agree with the evil kitteh (vampirism).
I had a proper LD today (after 10 years) and it was top awareness and full control LD.
I never had doubted,and still don’t, that i will loose control or something. and so i didn’t.

Quit picking on him. :tongue: Wild Night’s number-mixing prompted me to do a reality check.

Personally, when I look back-- on LD’s I had even before I heard the idea that there were levels-- some are longer, clearer, more successful with dream control, and others not so much even though I’m still lucid. To attempt to neatly sort out these aspects, I find that far from being limiting, can clarify which aspects of a dream to be wary of (for example, derailing DC’s) for which level to aspire to.

Far from the possibly discouraging, “You’re just lucid or non-lucid” if someone dreams about having a lucid dream without becoming lucid, and that’s included – Layer 0 on the Jones scale-- that could be taken as an sign that “You’re getting there.” :smile: