The Big WBTB Topic

[size=75][color=red] This is Part 1 of the BIG WBTB topic The discussion is continued here [url=]Part 2[/url] [/color][/size]

[color=red]This is the new Big WBTB Topic. The following are the final posts recovered from the original thread. Let’s keep it going.[/color] :smile:


I have trouble with WBTB. Mainly the BTB part, since I can’t get out of bed to begin with. When I wake up during the night it’s mostly something like ‘i’m awake… must… WBT…B… snore pilloooow zzzzz’. I really have to haul myself out of bed and stuff and often I’m so barely awake I just turn around and go back to sleep without really realising I was awake. XD


Tape a big paper to your wall or something that when you look at, you get up, its helps me


Ashvura maybe you could try to sleep a bit longer before you wake yourself up so you wont be so very tired anymore? Maybe you have been trying like 6 hours, you could try 7 for example


Try putting your alarm on the other side of the room so that you have to get up to turn it off.


I have a question…

Now that I’m back to school again, how should I plan my sleep duration and the time of WBTB during school days? And also for how much time should I stay awake? Considering that 8 hours of sleep is probably the maximum I can get, but it drops to 7 hours sometimes…

I have been to school for almost 2 weeks now, and I haven’t achieved anything close to LD, not to mention a really awful dream recall



I get about the same amount of sleep as you (11:30ish to 7) I try for either 4 or 5. You could just experiment and see what gives you the best results. Are you using another method in conjunction with WBTB? Like MILD or WILD? That could also impact what time you should wake up. Hope that someone more experienced answers your questions because I got the booksmarts on the subject but seem to be lacking the experience department eh?


I’m exactly the same way. You came up with a way better way to word it then I ever have though.

I also have the same question. Now that school is back in, I go to bed at about 10:10 and get up at about 7:15. Even though I get enough sleep, I’m always tired as hell in the mornings. It seems like WBTB would make it even worse. Additionally, setting off my alarm clock at 4:00 in the morning might both wake up my parents and make them very unhappy. I can’t shut my door (it’s broken) and my mom can’t shut her’s either, so there’s no sound barrier. Any suggestions for feeling less tired, a good way to do WBTB in my situation, etc.?


Move out of home, and set your alarm for any damn time you want.

I’m just kidding, there are several other ways to wake up early. You could try drinking a few glasses of water before bed - that’ll reliably get you up 5 or 6 hours later. Alternatively, you could look for another more quiet alarm, such as a watch or mobile phone.

It’s really not important what time you go to sleep, or wake up. As long as you get somewhere around 8 hours in total, you’ll be fine. Of course, the more the better, but don’t get too caught up and forget about school just to increase your chances slightly. (Whoa, I just displayed responsibility)

Anyway, I usually don’t stay awake for any longer than it takes to write down a few notes. If I’ve got time, I might read a few pages of EWLD, or drop by the chatroom to catch up with the ‘reverse-people’, who only appear at the darkest hour of my timezone.

Just return to sleep when you think you’ve got your intentions straight.


when waking up after about 6 hours sleep for the wbtb method, is it a good thing to wake up from a dream or does that mean you’ll gonna miss your REM sleep if you try wild?

coz if you wake up from a dream you timed your alarm quite well but if you would like to try wild you should maybe wake up shortly before the REM…?


It doesnt realy matter as far as i know, you will not miss any REM sleep. If you fall back asleep you will just go to REM again wheter it is a LD or not. In the morning a big part of the sleep cycle is REM anyway so a big chance you will fall into a dream right away in the morning.

wait wait, when did atheist become a mod?

but… where’s Insane_Goth?


infection0-- not a long time ago. :happy:

Reality.Failure and Atheist are our new mod :biggrin: (Congrats you two for become ld4all’s famous mods!)

I just started up again trying LDs, and I have a huge problem with waking up because I sleep on the top bunk (My first year at college). I hate having a roommate because now I cant listen to music while I go to bed either. My headphones just fall off when I go to bed (I roll around alot).

Just as you need to respect his rights, he also needs to respect your LDing rights and habits (even if they can be extreme at times.) LDing is a necessary part of life! :happy:

Note: I was originally going to post this as a new topic, but then I remembered there was this big topic about WBTB, so I thought it would be better to put it here.

For the last week I have been trying every night to have a LD. I decided to try something similar to what gave me my last 2 LDs, which was to get up in the night at 5am and listen to a Brainwave Generator preset that I made. No luck though. It’s frustrating. It’s almost like the two recent LDs I had were complete flukes, just pure luck.

Should I scrap the idea of Brainwave Generator in the night, because it appears to be doing nothing for me? Should I instead try simply reading the message boards for 30 minutes before going back to bed?

The only times I’ve ever had LD is by using some form of the WBTB type of method, so I’m quite convinced this kind of approach is the way forward for me.

The two recent LDs weren’t WILDs, but were rather more like MILDs, where I had simply done WBTB and then kept the idea of LDs in my head as I fell asleep, and then later in the dream realised I was dreaming. Also, I find WILD really hard to do, because I either stay awake or I just fall asleep, so it just becomes really frustrating.

Here are some of the immediate ideas that spring to mind, which I could encourporate as part of a WBTB technique:
1 - Read and reply to ld4all messages for 30 minutes and then go back to bed.
2 - Read an LD FAQ which I have previously printed out.
a - in bed?
b - sat in chair in bedroom?
c - sat in chair in a different room? (different room each night?)
3 - Write the words “LUCID DREAM?” really big on a piece of paper. Do this several times in different styles, then go back to bed.

Anybody else got some ideas?

Maybe I could try something different each night, but with the constant thing being that I am always trying WBTB at the exact same time every night.


I know exactly what you mean, Ed Case. WILD is difficult to do but my best method for getting lucid is WBTB. While doing MILD, I just drift off. Eventually I will become lucid within a dream if I’ve focused enough on my intent to have a ld.


I think I’m going to try reading the forum for 30 minutes before going back to bed. It’ll give me a good opportunity to read peoples dream dream diaries.



While reading the forum you can listen to the brainwave preset. Do both at the same time.

And for those who have problems with alarm clocks and trouble getting out of bed when awake there is a technique that was posted on this forum a while ago but here it is again. It is quite simple.

When you hop in bed or if you’ve been in bed for a while you can either repeat “i will get up at ___ (a time like 6am)” and your body will do it for you. I’m not sure if its necessary, but to help out your body you can look at the time before you say this. This has worked every time except once for me and that was when i chose a time that was too early. It usually wakes you up within half an hour of the time and gets better with practice. To knock it into your head even more (literally) bang your head on your pillow (does not have to be hard, just noticeable). If you want to wake at 6am bang your head 6 times.

I have noticed that when i do this i wake quicker and I’m in a more alert mood. So it helps you if you want to get up and then go BTB.

That’s an interesting idea actually. I’m not going to try it just yet, as I want to see if I can do it while staying awake fully for 30 minutes. It’s something I might consider as another possible method if this doesn’t work though. Thanks for the idea :wink:

Yeah, my grandfather claimed he used to be able to do that when he was in the war. He would be given the job of guarding a position at night, but nothing would happen for ages, so he would tell himself, “I will fall asleep for 30 minutes”, and he would be able to automatically awake 30 minutes later.

If you think about it though, if you can program yourself to awake at a certain time, wouldn’t it be possible to program yourself to simply have a lucid dream at that time instead of waking up first? Just an idea. :wink:



Well you can try. But your body already has an inbuilt timer for you to wake up and by saying when you are going to wake up it just changes the timer. However, your body does not have an inbuilt LD timer, so it is much harder for you to make a timer and then set it.

the difference betwean waking up and having a LD isn’t that big. You just tell your timer to wake you up slightly and you get a LD instead. :smile:

i don’t think it will work to give you a ld, but you can wake yourself up and not move, then try entering the dream you just left. It should most likely work.


About my previous post stating that I live in the top bunk at school and my roommate would get pissed if I had my alarm going off at 5 in the morning, that problem is gone though. Heres the solution! Dont get along with him, he will move out and you have the room by yourself! lol, thats what happened with us. Its not like I did it on purpose, but it worked out for the better, and now I can try to LD every night! Just thought I should share.

I have been thinking some more about WBTB, and I have come up with some thoughts on what I think would make a good WBTB method…

1 - Need to get out of bed (as stated before)
2 - Need to do something to do with LDs (as stated before)
3 - Need to do something which you don’t normally do in waking life. This is my new idea. My theory is this: If you read about LDs and you are doing it in a situation identical to normal waking life, then there might not be anything within that which particularly sets it apart from waking life. What I mean is, you might simply dream that you are reading the LD forum and not realise you’re dreaming. My idea is to simply do something slightly different, which you wouldn’t normally do.

I have got a couple of LD FAQs which I printed off from the LD newsgroup and from a different LD website. My plan is to get out of bed, and sit in a position I wouldn’t normally sit in, and read the FAQs, either for 30 minutes or until I have read them both completely (whichever happens first). I’m thinking maybe simply sitting sideways on my bed, because this is something I never do in normal life.

I’m just thinking that this might imprint itself better on my subconcious if I’m doing something different.

If that doesn’t work, then maybe I could try more different situations, such as going downstairs to a completely different room, or even sitting in an empty bath with my clothes on while I read. Maybe the weirder the better, because then I might dream about it and I might think, “Hey, why am I sat in the bath reading about lucid dreams? Hey, this could be a lucid dream!”



One way I’m also thinking of trying it, is to maybe do the complete opposite - not do any reading on LDs, and spend far less time awake. Just enough to become fully awake. Stand up, maybe do a few stretches or something, make sure I fully wake up, and then just go straight back to bed.

I’m still trying to perfect my WBTB method. I just go back to sleep counting 1 I’m dreaming, 2 I’m dreaming…ect. It only works, though, if I give it a full effort. Some nights, I’m too tired to do it right.

Ya I’m going to try this now I have nothing ta loose and it’s 6:11 right now.

I’m curious if anyone has any thoughts about the comparison between WBTB and afternoon naps… naps are generally easier for me to schedule and actually get me more sleep rather than interruption and less sleep.
I’ve had more success with naps in the past, but the last couple of times, my NovaDreamer gave me only 2 cues in a 2-hr nap which would indicate to me that I had very little REM.
So it seems like the consensus is the WBTB (combined with MILD or WILD) is best for most people. What do y’all think?


i alitlle dont like the WBTB .well i sleep…look on the watch…mmmmyyyyyymmmm its 3.00 Am…must…get up…oh crap i am going to sleep. thats why i dont like WBTB :sad: